A word from our sponsors...
Please help keep this site free by visiting our site sponsors - click on the banned below and have a look at their sites.
Please help keep this site free by visiting our site sponsors - click on the banned below and have a look at their sites.
A friend of mine showed me an old book of his dads, many years ago, in my school days, that mentioned some of the Roman rulers would impose [ as a punishment] being Raped by various Animals. Donkies and even tigers, lions, wolves etc. The person was usually bound, and their openings smeared with the jucies of a ripe female of which ever type animal was being used. The person often died as a result, or at least was publicly humilated, I think the crime may have been adultry ???? Any way it was also very intertaining for the spectators, so slave girls or captured enemy were used when there were no Adultries available. I believe it might also been popular intertainment at the famous Orgies of the day? I didnt get to read all the book, and dont recall the name of it just a few of the highlites, but the HBO series on Rome reminded me of it, they have mentioned such activies very briefly on the show a couple of times, just last week Baboons were mentioned, Sooooo maybe they did more than just feed Christens to the Lions ?????? Does any one Know?? I would love to get a copy of that old book!!!!
Hate to say it, but it sounds like fluff to me. It is certainly true that the Romans fed criminals, Christians, and other people they didn't terribly like to lions and such, but I've never heard of any case of animal rape - and that's something that many Roman authors, like Suetonius, would have loved to dwell upon, had it happened... So, while it's possible, of course, I quite doubt it. A lot of people are very sloppy with the accusations they make against the Romans when it comes to their cruelty.However, the Cassical world (the Romans, Greeks, and even, to some extent, the people of the Near East in that time) were much more open-minded about zoophilia that most other cultures. It's frequent in their mythology (Pasiphae and the Bull, Leda and the Swan, etc.), quite common in their art (see my avatar... ), and even crops up in their literature. In the "Golden Ass" of Apuleius, the protagonist is transformed into a donkey, in which form an artisocratic woman has sex with him. Apuleius was using it to criticise the aristocracy - illustrating how depraved they were - but at the same time, seems to have been somewhat light-hearted about it, too. I also heard once that there was a poem (I think in Greek, but it may have been Latin - Horace or Catullus or someone) which described eating grapes out of a mare's vagina!! Would love to find myself a copy of that!!!
Please help keep this site free by visiting our site sponsors - click on the banned below and have a look at their sites.
[From the "Golden Ass" of Apuleius - the translation is from the 1600s....sorry if that makes it a bit perplexing...]THE FORTY-SIXTH CHAPTERHow a certaine Matron fell in love with Apuleius, how hee had hispleasure with her, and what other things happened.When he had bought such things as was necessary, he would not returnehome into his Countrey in Chariots, or waggon, neither would he rideupon Thessalian Horses, or Jenets of France, or Spanish Mules, whichbe most excellent as can be found, but caused me to be garnished andtrimmed with trappers and barbs of Gold, with brave harnesse, withpurple coverings, with a bridle of silver, with pictured cloths, andwith shrilling bells, and in this manner he rode upon me lovingly,speaking and intreating me with gentle words, but above all thingshe did greatly rejoyce in that I was his Servant to beare him upon mybacke, and his Companion to feed with him at the Table: After long timewhen we had travelled as well by Sea as Land, and fortuned to arriveat Corinth, the people of the Towne came about us on every side, not somuch to doe honour to Thiasus, as to see me: For my fame was so greatlyspread there, that I gained my master much money, and when the peoplewas desirous to see me play prankes, they caused the Gates to be shut,and such as entered in should pay money, by meanes whereof I was aprofitable companion to them every day: There fortuned to be amongst theAssembly a noble and rich Matron that conceived much delight to beholdme, and could find no remedy to her passions and disordinate appetite,but continually desired to have her pleasure with me, as Pasiphae hadwith a Bull. In the end she promised a great reward to my keeper for thecustody of me one night, who for gaine of a little money accorded to herdesire, and when I had supped in a Parler with my Master, we departedaway and went into our Chamber, where we found the faire Matron, who hadtarried a great space for our comming: I am not able to recite unto youhow all things were prepared: there were foure Eunuches that lay on abed of downe on the ground with Boulsters accordingly for us to lye on,the Coverlet was of cloth of Gold, and the pillowes soft and tender,whereon the delicate Matron had accustomed to lay her head. Then theEunuches not minding to delay any longer the pleasure of their Mistresseclosed the doores of the Chamber and departed away: within the Chamberwere Lamps that gave a cleare light all the place over: Then she put offall her Garments to her naked skinne, and taking the Lampe thatstood next to her, began to annoint all her body with balme, and minelikewise, but especially my nose, which done, she kissed me, not as theyaccustome to doe at the stews, or in brothel houses, or in the CurtainSchools for gaine of money, but purely, sincerely, and with greataffection, casting out these and like loving words: Thou art he whom Ilove, thou art he whom I onely desire, without thee I cannot live, andother like preamble of talke as women can use well enough, when as theymind to shew or declare their burning passions and great affection oflove: Then she tooke me by the halter and cast me downe upon thebed, which was nothing strange unto me, considering that she was sobeautifull a Matron and I so wel bolded out with wine, and perfumedwith balme, whereby I was readily prepared for the purpose: But nothinggrieved me so much as to think, how I should with my huge and great legsimbrace so faire a Matron, or how I should touch her fine, dainty, andsilken skinne, with my hard hoofes, or how it was possible to kisse hersoft, pretty and ruddy lips, with my monstrous mouth and stony teeth, orhow she, who was young and tender, could be able to receive me.And I verily thought, if I should hurt the woman by any kind of meane, Ishould be throwne to the wild Beasts: But in the meane season she kissedme, and looked in my mouth with burning eyes, saying: I hold thee mycanny, I hold thee my noose, my sparrow, and therewithall she eftsoonesimbraced my body round about, and had her pleasure with me, whereby Ithought the mother of Miniatures did not ceaseless quench her inordinatedesire with a Bull. When night was passed, with much joy and smallsleepe, the Matron went before day to my keeper to bargain with himanother night, which he willingly granted, partly for gaine of money,and partly to finde new pastime for my master. Who after he was informedof all the history of my luxury, was right glad, and rewarded my keeperwell for his paine, minding to shew before the face of all the people,what I could doe: but because they would not suffer the Matron to abidesuch shame, by reason of her dignity, and because they could finde noother that would endeavour so great a reproach, at length they obtainedfor money a poore woman, which was condemned to be eaten of wildebeasts, with whom I should openly have to doe:
Sorry can't help you with the book. I do like history and have to say,based on the material out there,that what you put across is likely. As for them having some kind of animal sex as part of thier orgies,it may have hapened. Unlike today where its seen as "cruel and unnatural",at the time it may have been more comon than we know. It was not likely mentioned much as it could have well been "normal"for them to see a dog licking someones butt,afterall most people at the time lkely had nothing on under thier tuniks. Also it was comon for them to see people naked and it may have been comon to see couples engaged in mating. While maybe not a regular site,coming across a young man engaged in mounting a sheep,donkey or horse would likely have not been of any concern. It may have been seen as to how sexually active he was. It's also know that in those times as well,that there were many of the men who were . It was just a part of life at the time. Many of the games held are pictured with those involved naked. I think it's very likely that beastialty was more comon than we know and in some cases masy have been viewed as a "right of passege",a reasonable way to satisfy that "icth". In those days,ones horse became a part of the family. You were with them much of the time. The "bond"between the two woul have ben strong and it's possible that if you were not able to find a woman,that you could be satisfied by your horse. In Mongolia,there are those who live with thier horse herds. They use mares milk and have a very strongly bond to thier horses. It would not surprise me to find out that some of the young men would or may seek to have sex with a mare. It would also go for the early American Indians. They lived with thier horses and they spent a lot of time with them as well.
Gotta love those ancient greeks.But as for today, who in their right state of mind would consider consensual sex cruel or unusual for an animal. I mean really, whats wrong with people.
More popular in ancient times. I doubt it, but it certainly did not have the strict prohibitions, either social or legal, that we have today. So, that openness to it certainly allowed more open discussion about it. Thus making it seem more popular. But you need to take into account about modern society, just how many people practice or are interested in it, yet they never discuss it with anyone else. So in terms of percentages of population, I don't necessarily think it was more popular or practiced than now, just more accepted. I don't doubt the openness of the ancients did have secondary effect of allowing things like professional trainers to pop up, as well as specialized sex shows, and brothels where beastie activities could be persued.
Gosh what a hot topic! Its another one of those interesting subjects that unfortunately cant be checked up on properly.... but maybe in respect to writings and such...the Romans, even though they seemed to be somewhat more liberal in carnal issues...viewed beastiality as taboo to a certain degree as it is seen these days?? Maybe thats why it wasnt covered so much... who knows, but its a crying shame either way... Since sacrifices were made with regularity to the Gods and so forth....women of the Roman courts etc who indulged in the killings...didnt get right to the gory stuff right away? But yeah....awesome topic for discussion!
Definately a hot topic. It has to be remembered that Roman society was around for quite some time.....what was it, over 1600 years in existence? So social norms could have easily swayed quite a bit over that period of time. A couple of points that help the case that bestiality was more common than todayA) people were in contact with animals _alot_ more back then. Your transportation was your horse, perhaps you had goats, chickens, and cows for milk and meat, and dogs for hunting game must have been an intergrel part of many families. I think during a daily routine one would be with animals almost every waking hour.(damn, now I'm getting jealous) The opportunity would certainly have been there. Every history book I've ever read regarding Rome mentions, at least during the time of the Ceasars, of "sexual debauchery" of some sort. Men with men, dominatrixes, bondage, self flagellation, etc. It's as if the people of Rome indulged in unique ways of expressing themselves sexually simply for the novelty of it. In this context, is it really that much of a stretch to assume animals were part of all this? C) No laws were in place expressly forbidding bestiality. In fact, as has been mentioned in a previous post, it may have been considered a fair outlet for some to turn to animals for "relief". Animals were not taboo in the least back then, thou when Caligula named his beloved horse Incitatus to the senate I don't think that was looked upon favorably at all Regarding some of the entertainment in the arena, I have heard about the episode with the baboons before. There was a series on TV a year or so back on PBS (public broadcasting service) called "History of Rome" and it told about the baboons being trained for use in the arena (both in the circus maximus and in the coliseum) whereby a women would be punished by this means. The baboons would rape them, and then kill them and eat them (yes eat them!) for the entertainment of the crowd. It also mentioned how the lions would need to be trained to eat people in the arena. Apparently wild untrained lions would not do the deed because of all the distractions. Once a lion was a trained man-eater, it would be allowed to saunter into the arena (the program mentioned that many of the trained lions became obese with all the people they ate. Their bellies would sway as they walked, and the crowd would chant the lions name as he approached his "lunch") and confront the poor victim, who was tied naked to a pole on a wheeled conveyance. He would then have to endure the agony of the kitty making him his lunch. Often the cat would simply start eating, not bothering to kill the victim first (uggghh!) This was often done at lunch time, and the crowd would eat their food right along with the lion! How's that for having an iron constitution?
Please help keep this site free by visiting our site sponsors - click on the banned below and have a look at their sites.
It's been documented (by Tacitus and others) that animal/human acts were exhibited in the arena as entertainment - for example re-enacting the myth of Europa and Jupiter in the form of a bull.However Roman society did not look upon bestiality as an entirely positive thing, for instance there was a ruling that high-status single women were not allowed to own dogs as "Caesar's wife must be above suspicion". However it happened and was depicted in Roman art (one of the most famous being the pan and goat found at Herculaneum) and was probably regarded with some amusement pretty much in the way much of society treats the subject today - a bit of a joke. You certainty see a lot of "taboo" erotic art around areas the Romans regarded as "spiritually dangerous" such as the limnal spaces of dwellings and places like baths where one was naked and potentially subject to the "evil eye". Amusing art showing non-procreative sex (oral and anal sex, bestiality, etc) was meant to provoke laughter and so ward off malign influences.As Equineslurp has already pointed out when Caligula threatened to make his horse Incantitus a senator it was an insult to the senate - "My horse could do a better job than you" - although he did lavish the very best on him, marble stables and all that So the Romans... pro-zoo; probably not. But they left us with a lot of great art and a superb language.Dracunculus (lat: little dragon )
Please help keep this site free by visiting our site sponsors - click on the banned below and have a look at their sites.
Quit a few years ago there was a film about the Vatican and its museum with some of its ancient art work! If one could only gain access to their archives, there is a lot drawing and other art work depicting humans with animals, both for enjoyment and some depicting rap and death. There was one picture that I have seen of a donkey or horse over the top of a female on her back with her legs held wide apart. There were ropes around the animal stopping him form moving to far forward with the end of his erect penis about to enter the sexual entrance of the female, but standing behind the animal was a man with a big knife cutting through the ropes that were stopping the animal from moving further forward.
Please help keep this site free by visiting our site sponsors - click on the banned below and have a look at their sites.
Well, with regard to patrician class women not owning large dogs, that has more to do with maintaining a perception of loyal chastity to their husbands. Which included not only restraining from sex with animals but from not having any kind of extramarital affairs. For which there were hefty legal penalties if it was proven. But it has been well documented that there were well known regular animal sex shows, that were frequently attended by upper class romans. And where the performers themselves earned quite a public amount of renown and following. So it obviously was not a taboo activity nor was it frowned upon, or openly ridiculed. It was an accepted aspect of human sexuality.
i read a book a long time ago about anceint rome with all the orgies etc one part of it had virgins in an arena tied down then released baboons to rape them it was called ,The loins of Amon
I would kind of discount "orgy" accounts to get a good idea about what was legal, popular or accepted in terms of beastiality or zoophilia. Afterall orgies are basically private parties officially closed to the public. So you can expect a certain amount of taboo and non taboo behaviors to occur behind closed doors. Better examples as I have already cited, are the kinds of things you could see at easily accessible public venues and houses.
Please help keep this site free by visiting our site sponsors - click on the banned below and have a look at their sites.
QUOTE (dracunculus @ Feb 21 2007, 12:30 AM) However Roman society did not look upon bestiality as an entirely positive thing, for instance there was a ruling that high-status single women were not allowed to own dogs as "Caesar's wife must be above suspicion". Ok, hold on a minute. Are you guys saying that high status women were not allowed to own large canines for the single reason that they might have sex with them?? If true, then that in itself is basically an admission that human/animal relations were common knowledge in Rome. It may not have been "accepted" per se, but for entirely different reasons than we have today. It had more to do with woman being chaste than being moral. Absolutely fascinating
Please help keep this site free by visiting our site sponsors - click on the banned below and have a look at their sites.
I think equineslurp,raises a good point. If you think about it,really we don't have a "clue",so to speak,as to what went on. We can speculate. In my opinion,many of us have likely based are perceptions on that period in history,in some way as a result of Hollywood. While they may depict the glory of the past,it's likely a very narrow view. It should be considered that zoophy activaty can be seen in many other parts of the world as well,from Inda,Indonessia,Asia and the Americas at different times. I agree with equineslurp's reasoning in regards to it being the differences btween todays and acient "perceptions." In that the overall majority of people at the time were illiterate and as has been noted,most lived with thier animals,it seems reasonable to asume that it would'nt have been uncomon for a young or older male/female, to find some sexual satisfaction with thier animal. As I noted earlier,it may have been seen as a good way to provide satisfaction,if as a male,you did;nt have a woman and you were out in the feild or traveling. Agian this is speculation,but if you think about it,in light of the time period,it could have happened. Being something that would've been seen as a "natural"action,one could also asume that it would have not been something considered worth describing,on paper. At the time,it would not have been uncomon to see a stallion mounting a mare or a male and female k9 doing it openly. While in todays society it's look down on,at the time for a parrent to come in and find thier son mounting a mare or the daughter being mounted by a male k9,would not have been that "big a deal". Who knows,maybe the father showed him how to do it. Maybe they'd do it together for sport. The young female may have been taught by her mother that doing it with a male k9 was good "practice" for when she got a husband or as a safe alternative when your husband is not around,say in battle or traveling. Again,this is just conjecture..
Actually Black, the tidbits I posted are based on recorded observations by, contemporary roman historians. Not even sure they would have actually been called historians, considering much of the news they wrote about was more along the lines of contemporary gossip, and daily goings on. Rather than chronicling specific and pivotal political, military or social events that might be considered historical moments at some future date. In short I try to keep Hollywood out of it. Not that it matters, for I have NEVER seen any television or hollywood pop culture productions that ever faintly mentioned zoo/beastie activities amongst ancient cultures.
Watch the HBO show on Rome , I have heard it mentioned on the show 3 or 4 times, once they mentioned having a guys wife and daughters raped by a pack of Dogs if he didnt do as they wished. there was also a incestious episode between a brother and sister. Homosexuality was quiet popular as is today, but they apparently did pretty much what ever they pleased, especially with the many slaves they had access to, they could use and abuse them as they wished. I am sure it varied with the different rulers and times, But if they had Gladiators that were forced to fight and kill for the sport and enertainment of the public, and wild or trained animals to kill and eat people for their entertainment I don,t doubt that watching slave Girls being raped by Baboons , Wolves, Zebras, camels etc would really bother them. I recall a hand drawn black and white picture of a woman tied face down over a bench, she was partially draped in animal skins and was being mounted by a Tiger, who was also biting the back of her neck, while in others both men an women were being chased around the areana by various animals. I have seen the reaction of various male animals when they are around a female of their own kind that was in heat, only one think on their minds, and some times they play rough, especially if the lady isnt cooperating. can you imagine what would happen if you rubbed the genitals of a slave girl with the estures excreations of a female donky, or a Baboon, or any other type of animal, even an elephant, then turned several males of that species loose into the areana with them [ of which there is no escape] there would be chasing, fighting mounting and at least some attempts at mating, all while a cheering crowd looks own in awh, their sexual excitement growing all the time, as soon as one was raped or killed in the attempt, they clear the arena and run in a different species, they games could go on for as long as they wanted, then the Gladiators would fight the animals to avenge the Girls. all this to get in the mood for the Orgies that would occur that night. I have also heard of similar activities among the Vikins, where they kept large Dogs for warmth and protection of their women folk while they were out Rape piliging and Plundering....... Its all mind boggiling.
QUOTE (oleranger @ Feb 22 2007, 05:04 PM) I have also heard of similar activities among the Vikins, where they kept large Dogs for warmth and protection of their women folk while they were out Rape piliging and Plundering....... Its all mind boggiling. Actually, there's a really interesting find here in Sweden.. it's called the Sagaholm, and is a barrow filled with a circle of sandstone slabs, covered with carvings. The carvings depicts ships, animals and people, but also many zoo acts with different animals Not to mention all the myths concerning the matter.. like when the god of mischief, Loki, turns into a mare in heat, gets raped by one of the giants' horses, becomes pregnant and gives birth to Sleipnir, Odin's eight-footed horse O.o
Don't read too much into tv shows. Gladiators and non gladiators where two different classes of people. Gladiators and bestiaria were highly trained, at great monetary cost, slave athletes. Anyone else thrown into the arena were criminals(both slave and citizen) or sometimes prisoners of war. It would be exceedingly rare for a trained gladiator to risk his life and health fighting an animal under circumstances, and certainly not to 'avenge' the raped corspe of criminal. Nor would the animals trained at great cost for copulating with humans, be slaughtered afterwards. It would simply not be economically efficient. Now a bestiarium is who you sent out to fight against one or multiple animals. They were 'gladiators' trained specifically to fight animals. They possessed an entirely different skill set than that of your standard gladiator, and cost as much if not more to train.
QUOTE I recall a hand drawn black and white picture of a woman tied face down over a bench, she was partially draped in animal skins and was being mounted by a Tiger, who was also biting the back of her neck, while in others both men an women were being chased around the areana by various animals....Hi, does anyone know where I can find this artwork, among other artwork, ancient and new, portraying what went on in the Roman arenas?
QUOTE (Ursinoid @ Mar 14 2007, 06:40 AM) QUOTE I recall a hand drawn black and white picture of a woman tied face down over a bench, she was partially draped in animal skins and was being mounted by a Tiger, who was also biting the back of her neck, while in others both men an women were being chased around the areana by various animals....Hi, does anyone know where I can find this artwork, among other artwork, ancient and new, portraying what went on in the Roman arenas? The little bit that is out there is in libraries (if you can ever get to the library of Congress it's really, really amazing the stuff they have there), on the net, and sometimes you can catch a pretty good collection from a bookstore. Used book stores are also a good source. Unfortunately thou, I was watching a documentary a while back discussing Rome and some of the artwork. They interviewed an archeologist and he said that alot of the more risque artwork is not available for public viewing. I don't want to start a religious argument or thread here, but apparently the vatican has alot to do with what comes out of the ruins of Rome and what does not.
QUOTE (energydog @ Feb 22 2007, 09:14 AM) Actually Black, the tidbits I posted are based on recorded observations by, contemporary roman historians. Not even sure they would have actually been called historians, considering much of the news they wrote about was more along the lines of contemporary gossip, and daily goings on. Rather than chronicling specific and pivotal political, military or social events that might be considered historical moments at some future date. In short I try to keep Hollywood out of it. Not that it matters, for I have NEVER seen any television or hollywood pop culture productions that ever faintly mentioned zoo/beastie activities amongst ancient cultures. wow this is good discussion,..actually their is one I remembered in the mid 80's at college, The Movie "Caliqiula"staring M.McDawel(spelling?)and Peter O'tool...was very contraversial at that time that they banned the movie but later I rented the video...there is a scene of the "Living Statues" hallway where all statues were real people doing erotic activities- and they briefly showed a female inserting a snake or eel in her, and another with a horse,..the rest showing ancient wooden contraptions like a bicycle with wheels that is arrayed with tongues slapping a female Va-J-J as she pedal'd it between her legs (Funny)..The Movie was produced by Penthouse,..I think its still available in Video store-but they might have heavily edited it by now,...Ive shared my view on ancient beastiality before and crossed referenced it with historic Biblical accounts, but for some reason I was admonished by the sitesmoderator,..I dont think it was permitted to post. Made me wonder. thanx
Ovid was a prolific writer of Roman History. I had to translate a lot of Latin written by Ovid in school, many years ago now.I still have one book. Ovids "Art of Love". In Latin on one side of the page and English translation on the other. This book was not used in school!He wrote a detailed description of Pasiphae and the White Bull. But that occured in Greece. He details all the possible angles and techniques of sexual intercourse of every kind.Research under the Coloseum in Rome shows evidence of much stabling for various animals. Emporer Caligula is recorded as the most extravagent promoter of Orgies including animal rape in the Arena. He was definately mad (insane) though. There is documentd history, illustrated of punishment for adultery in China. The woman being put to a stallion. If she died she was guilty. If she survived she was innocent and let go. Technique and experience definately helped there.Animal play is as old as history itself.Sez: Binther3
Actually animal cages under the floors of the Coliseum has more to do the with keeping of animals for the bestiaria, as well the execution of criminals. As in, "throwing the christians to the lions". Heck they had to keep them somewhere, not very safe walking them through the streets of a crowded Rome. Caligula is a very hard to find movie. Not because of its controversial nature. But mostly because its kind of a bad movie. Poorly photographed, poorly lit, and poorly written and poorly edited.
Please help keep this site free by visiting our site sponsors - click on the banned below and have a look at their sites.
Which is a pity, because I heard that they originally started out with a great script by Gore Vidal, but the director either chucked it or edited it beyond recognition...
As a side note, while recently in Weimar (Germany), I toured Goethe's house. For those who don't know, he's considered Germany's Shakespeare, and had a fascination with classical art and architecture. One of the reliefs in the house appeared to be a man copulating with a rather large, long-necked swan of some kind. Is anyone familiar with the myth that may have inspired this?And the artwork was rather stunning, too
QUOTE The little bit that is out there is in libraries (if you can ever get to the library of Congress it's really, really amazing the stuff they have there), on the net, and sometimes you can catch a pretty good collection from a bookstore. Used book stores are also a good source.Could you name any specific books, documentaries, websites, etc.?
I have read about documented examples of this happening in the Coliseum as part of the days entertainment. Horses, dogs and, if my memory serves me well, even a bear were just some of the animals used. Personally speaking, I have no doubt it was fairly widespread in the culture. Tiberius certainly had a reputation as a beasty lover. I won't go into detail about his 'little fishies', in case it breaks forum rules. Having said that, it is a historical fact, but I'd rather be safe than sorry. The Romans are so interesting, they still have achievements we have yet to surpass. What I love the most is the similarities are as varied as the differences between our two cultures. Great topic!
Please help keep this site free by visiting our site sponsors - click on the banned below and have a look at their sites.
Many years ago, I read "Those about to die" by Daniel P.Mannix.(A history of the Roman Games)I'm fairly sure it was this book in which there was a chapter on Bestiality.Here it described where under certain emperors, (I suspect Caligula being one) ...certain beasts, including bears, horses, bulls and even Giraffes were trained to copulate in the arena with human females covered in animal skins! Needless to say, most if not all of these unfortunate women did not survive the ordeal.I will elaborate no further as this deals with the subject of 'rape' which is not allowed here.I merely state that from what I've read, this IS historic FACT!I also read somewhere an account (allegedly factual) of the Patrician wife of a certain Roman Senator, actually paying an animal triner to provide her with regular visits by one of his Asses! The lady concerned supposedly became so infatuated with the animal, that the trainer began to have grave concerns for the health of his Ass! P/S: The book mentioned above can be found by Googling for it!
Please help keep this site free by visiting our site sponsors - click on the banned below and have a look at their sites.
"For those about to die" is a very good read and the best part is it's online for free. Just google it as Uncle Fester says and you'll find it. I think it's about 15 chapters in all, and has some great first hand accounts (as I remember it) from the games. Some gore, but also some fascinating insight into how it was.
QUOTE (Ursinoid @ Mar 16 2007, 02:22 AM) QUOTE The little bit that is out there is in libraries (if you can ever get to the library of Congress it's really, really amazing the stuff they have there), on the net, and sometimes you can catch a pretty good collection from a bookstore. Used book stores are also a good source.Could you name any specific books, documentaries, websites, etc.? I'm looking into that. What I am finding though is that alot of the art is dispersed, so that you may find one or two interesting art pieces in one book. I'll see if I can collect and scan what I have. Might be of interest to those here.Also you may visit a certain website. Google "Bestiality in art" and it may come up.Ian's has the link as well.
QUOTE (fester3156 @ Mar 21 2007, 12:16 PM) Many years ago, I read "Those about to die" by Daniel P.Mannix.(A history of the Roman Games)I'm fairly sure it was this book in which there was a chapter on Bestiality.Here it described where under certain emperors, (I suspect Caligula being one) ...certain beasts, including bears, horses, bulls and even Giraffes were trained to copulate in the arena with human females covered in animal skins! Needless to say, most if not all of these unfortunate women did not survive the ordeal.I will elaborate no further as this deals with the subject of 'rape' which is not allowed here.I merely state that from what I've read, this IS historic FACT!I also read somewhere an account (allegedly factual) of the Patrician wife of a certain Roman Senator, actually paying an animal triner to provide her with regular visits by one of his Asses! The lady concerned supposedly became so infatuated with the animal, that the trainer began to have grave concerns for the health of his Ass! P/S: The book mentioned above can be found by Googling for it! That title rings a bell. Could be what I read, but not 100%. You corroborated what I said about bears, so my memory serves me well. Found a good site. It goes through the book, chapter by chapter. I didn't get the chance to read every chapter. Chapter 5 is about a bestiarii named Carpophorus. It says that the poet Martial mentions him once. Then goes on to describe a top bestiarii during the reign of the Emperor Domitian, shortly after the building of the Colosseum. They use the name Carpophorus as an example. Towards the end of the chapter it says, and I quote;'Sexual relations between a woman and an animal were often exhibited "under the stands" as they are today in the Place Pigalle in Paris'I googled Place Pigalle and it is the red light district. Here's a link for the site I mentioned;http://www.kurtsaxon.com/those_a_t_d/index.htmThe Senators wife and her infatuation with the ass was funny. Sounds like she 'worked her ass off'. hehe Going off the subject slightly, Catherine the Great of Russia has a reputation that makes reference to her love of horses.
Thankyou for your reference to that book BULLZdawd The events I referred to are described in Chapter 5...and there is a similar story about a noblewoman and an ass mentioned in Chapter 12 (although this is not professed be a genuine account). It is nevertheless indicitave of the practice of besiality during those times.With regard to 'Catherine the Great', Empress of Russia, I too read accounts of this lady's supposed sexual exploits, and was of the undrstanding that she eventually met her untimely end under a Stallion which broke the restraining harness she'd had constructed and fully entered her, causing her terrible internal injuries!In this article, it also mentioned that she'd commissioned a specially made bed for her, with scenes of her various equine exploits carved into it.Later, I read another article which disappointed me no end, because it refuted the authenticity of the former accounts, saying that there was no basis in historical evidence for any truth in it at all. (Awww Rats!!! )btw...Nobody really knows the truth, but I suspect that maybe 'Bodil' met her end the same way (?)
QUOTE (fester3156 @ Mar 22 2007, 05:29 AM)With regard to 'Catherine the Great', Empress of Russia, I too read accounts of this lady's supposed sexual exploits, and was of the undrstanding that she eventually met her untimely end under a Stallion which broke the restraining harness she'd had constructed and fully entered her, causing her terrible internal injuries!In this article, it also mentioned that she'd commissioned a specially made bed for her, with scenes of her various equine exploits carved into it.Later, I read another article which disappointed me no end, because it refuted the authenticity of the former accounts, saying that there was no basis in historical evidence for any truth in it at all. (Awww Rats!!! )btw...Nobody really knows the truth, but I suspect that maybe 'Bodil' met her end the same way (?)We must visit the same library, I too have read different versions about Catherine the Great. Sadly, history is littered with conflicting accounts. As I'm sure you know, this happens for a wide variety of reasons. In general, I can discern these 'facts' and form an opinion. Catherine is an exception to the rule. Both accounts are convincing in their own way. Impartiality must play a part in order for me to form an honest opinion and in this case it's not possible. You're not alone, I felt the same disappointment you did when I first heard that the stories about Catherine were possibly untrue. I can't really comment about Bodil. She is known to me more by her reputation and by word of mouth. So, in place of my ignorance, I dug this up on the all knowing, all seeing Wikipedia;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodil_Joensen How the hell did I surf the net before Google & Wikipedia?
QUOTE (BULLZdawg @ Mar 22 2007, 12:34 PM) I can't really comment about Bodil. She is known to me more by her reputation and by word of mouth. So, in place of my ignorance, I dug this up on the all knowing, all seeing Wikipedia;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodil_Joensen How the hell did I surf the net before Google & Wikipedia? Now why didn't I think of that? Such a terribly sad decline and end for her
QUOTE (fester3156 @ Mar 22 2007, 01:09 PM)Such a terribly sad decline and end for her She would be 63 if she was still alive. Makes me wonder...............would she be a member here?
QUOTE (BULLZdawg @ Mar 22 2007, 03:49 PM) QUOTE (fester3156 @ Mar 22 2007, 01:09 PM)Such a terribly sad decline and end for her She would be 63 if she was still alive. Makes me wonder...............would she be a member here? For sure Bullz, she'd be a supreme being or mod I bet
QUOTE (hot_not @ Mar 22 2007, 04:36 PM) For sure Bullz, she'd be a supreme being or mod I bet Hiya hot_not! Good 2CU Didn't think of that, she'd probably have her own site and would be BF's main competition
Well I'm a fan of the series Rome on HBO. There's been several bestiality references. A woman put a curse on another woman, wishing she'd be raped by wild dogs. A foreigner asks a roman senator if its true that roman women actually have sex with baboons.
QUOTE (silkythighs @ Mar 23 2007, 10:31 PM) Well I'm a fan of the series Rome on HBO. There's been several bestiality references. A woman put a curse on another woman, wishing she'd be raped by wild dogs. A foreigner asks a roman senator if its true that roman women actually have sex with baboons. There was another reference about having dogs rape Caeser, if they catch him. I think it's Pompey's son. It's after they flee Rome and just prior to their ultimate defeat. I'm sure they are in a tent when they say this. I'm a big fan too! I wish they would show the 2nd season in the UK. I called the BBC, who had aired the first season last year. At the time, they said the new season would be in Jan 2007. It's now March, when I called the BBC, they couldn't tell me when it was due to be aired. What's even worse is there are no plans to do a third season. It was only meant to be a mini-series and we're lucky to get the second season. I have the DVD box set and the 'making of' is interesting. One point that was made had to do with the fact they filmed it in Rome. So the extras were authentic Romans who took tremendous pride in this project. This spirit existed from set designers, costume designers etc. One of the actors (I think) said that everyday when they travelled to the studios, they would pass the real Rome and see the ruins and it helped to inspire them. Imagine the difference if they filmed it in Hollywood. It would be tacky.
Do any of you in any way feel a bit jealous of anicent Rome? I'm beginning to get a hint of that in this thread... I am a little disturbed by this, especially by the fact that you seem to be reveling in this utterly dark part of history.True, if your'e just a pervert that just wants to see depraved things, the ancient Romans had it MUCH better than you do today, about all you can get to see today in all the zoo porn out there in the world are just about a million pathetic videos of the exact same thing, some desperate crackwhore licking some dumb inbred dog's sickening pink knot for money, or wanking some disinterested horse's half-limp penis. Pretty sad. I also warn you that this is a dangerous discussion, for this forum has rules against rape, underage molestation and other cruel perversions, which is ENTIRELY what the ancient Romans were into!!! Are we already descending back down to their level all over again???
QUOTE (Ursinoid @ Apr 2 2007, 07:40 PM) I also warn you that this is a dangerous discussion, for this forum has rules against rape, underage molestation and other cruel perversions, which is ENTIRELY what the ancient Romans were into!!! Are we already descending back down to their level all over again??? Our interest in ancient Rome has nothing to do with rape, slavery, or the abuse of children. It centers on whether bestiality would've been commonly practiced by free roman citizens, or by the roman upper classes.
Last modified on February 9th, 2010 | Zoodestiny.com | © 2003-2005 - All Rights Reserved