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As a woman,I am well exposed to dehumanization. I can taste it in porn, advertisements. vulgar men, clothin, mnakeup . . .. Perhaps it planted the seed. I seek deep dehumanization. Perhaps a condition that I could step into and out of.I have discussed this with a friend, Rhinie. He's a BBM, gay, and a genius. He was restlessly celibate until I suggested a dog. Now he's his dog's girlie, and contented. He says that is dehumanizing and a liberating experince. But as a gay male, he is also dehumanized and that is unpleasant. It is something that should be experienced and relished within oneself and be allowed to sink as deeply into as they wish, and privately, if they so desire. We role play at this. Its fun, but seldom a real rush for either.I was wondering if you all would come up with suggestions. Thot I might try some and report back if you expess a desire for that. How would you like to experience dehumaization. Would you want it permanent or a role to step in and out of? Would it entail training? Bo mod?Love, Rose
errr I have to wonder if your thinking more of humiliation as opposed to being "dehumanized" -although I GUESS one could be excited by being "dehumanized" in an animal affair -when you say your friend feels that way in gay relationships I have to wonder if your not using the wrong word.. closely related - but knot identical or synonomous... we were actually recently discussing the desires and needs of being dominated in another thread... it's a topic that is suitable and acceptable - but a word of warning for you here - just as we will not permit slanderous general statements of the female persuasion -it applies with males to... "vulgar men" is very borderline - play nice
I often fantasize about 'dehumanization' as I am being close to an animal. Although my fantasies about it can be rather extreme and unrealistic, when I am in real life, they can be anything but extreme. They can be totally mundane and utterly ordinary, and will probably seem more silly than a turn-on for most here.Every year, farmers borrow my pastures to keep their cows on, and I keep the cows with additional feed, salt-licks, water and care. So, just simple acts like scritching them, making them feel good, massaging them, grooming them, bringing them food. Those things make me feel good, in more than one way. I can even find it arousing that I am being 'the servant' of those lovely animals who I adore and admire.Another thing that also makes me feel good (that I cannot do very often, because very rarely RL permits one to be lazy), is to spend the entire day in the pasture, with the herd. Walking beside them as they graze, lying beside them as they rest, and sleeping beside them as they sleep.It makes me feel as if I was one of them, and that feeling is wonderful to me.But sure, I have extreme, unrealistic fantasies of being abducted by a farmer who would dehumanize me and keep me with his animals in his barn. I am sure I'd love to roleplay something along those lines in real life, but probably not for very extended periods.
Hey Rose1. What in the world are you talking about?? I read what you posted and I am completely confused??? Sorry, But I cannot determine if you consider dehumanizing as a positive or a negative thing? Are you talking about roll playing as a "human animal"? I'll use myself as an example: I myself enjoy "equus erotica" which is a form of bondage, I often imagine myself as a stallion and very vividly play the part. Leather, body paint, tail and the whole nine yards. I play this with friends and very frequently bring in the real horses to join in! its loads of fun and I guess in some ways a very liberating "dehumanizing" experience. The focus is that everyone has fun, there is no humiliation involved with my friends or my horses. "Dehumanization" is not a bad thing unless your talking about humiliating someone; stepping on a person and degrating them.
Okay I admit it. I have no idea what you are talking about. Its okay that I don't. I'm perfectly fine being human, I have no desire to be any other mammal. I also am not into humiliating sexual relations. If you are speaking of something else that has not already been covered then...well...maybe its best I don't know. Ignorance is bliss and I'm a prime example of it.
Why isn't it called remammalization?
Remammalization.That's a good one. Dehumanization implies that being human would somehow be superior. Becoming more like another animal, would be to become inferior. In a way, this is how most people on this planet seems to feel about this subject.I personally, like the feel of looking up on an animal, and regarding them as superior to me. My logical mind regards us as being equal. Different, yes, but equal. But when I am admiring and adoring someone, like I tend to do with certain individuals that I fall for, I tend to feel that they are so much above me.
Its a great fantasy of mind Rose1,ty for posting it.
Hi Rose1!Glad to be able to read your posts againDehumanization implies taking away something and leaving nothing in exchange, but that is not the case, you speak of it as of insensibilization therapy in allergy, dehumanization would be to make a robot out of someone, like a worker who just goes to the factory and back home to sleep, can eat the same beef and beans on his three meals and does nothing or thinks nothing outside his job, (I understand what you say from makeup and stuff like that, women that become obsessed with it are true robots, unable to laugh because that makes wrinkles), If you speak of the idea explored in your stories, I would call it Feralization, you assume the identity of a creature, not human, not animal but somewhere in between, that is giving something, making a synergy and in some cases making something to stand up for a personal deficiency (like my case with self esteem)As a treatment, you could try something like neurolinguistic programming, say good doggy instead of good girl/man/whatever when you make something good, explore what comes out of thinking what a dog would do in this case?, and learn from the 4 leggers, there is no better teacherr for trust, friendship, loyalty, reliability, and many more traits than a K9.On the step in/out, I would stay on the safe side and have my inner dog controlling a facade of human, even when I can only sleep comfortably when my bed smells to my dogs (or they make me sleep in the newspapers I had for them to lie on).
QUOTE (Rose1 @ Dec 8 2005, 03:21 PM) As a woman,I am well exposed to dehumanization. I can taste it in porn, advertisements. vulgar men, clothin, mnakeup . . .. Perhaps it planted the seed. I seek deep dehumanization. Perhaps a condition that I could step into and out of.I have discussed this with a friend, Rhinie. He's a BBM, gay, and a genius. He was restlessly celibate until I suggested a dog. Now he's his dog's girlie, and contented. He says that is dehumanizing and a liberating experince. But as a gay male, he is also dehumanized and that is unpleasant. It is something that should be experienced and relished within oneself and be allowed to sink as deeply into as they wish, and privately, if they so desire. We role play at this. Its fun, but seldom a real rush for either.I was wondering if you all would come up with suggestions. Thot I might try some and report back if you expess a desire for that. How would you like to experience dehumaization. Would you want it permanent or a role to step in and out of? Would it entail training? Bo mod?Love, Rose Yesh, sounds like humiliation to me not dehumanisation. The Jews experienced dehumanisation under [CENSOR] rule, as have blacks in the US and South Africa. I think you definately mean humiliation and subserviance )where's the spell check?) or submission.
Juicy topic Rose, and some thoughtful responses - kudos to all . It looks to me to be a great example of the thrill that can come from breaking taboos. That these ideas don't occur in isolation, in neat packages of contained and readily identifiable ideas, is not really suprising. As a (B/Z)(G/B)M and sub/switch I can readily relate to the notion that human desire is not necessarily tidy, and rarely rational! I think it's important too, when considering this topic, to remember that there is an vital difference between what we fantasise about and what we choose to act out in reality. Rational judgements rarely really apply to the realm of fantasy.To get a bit closer to the point, Rose seems to be expressing a bit of a mix of taboo related desires. (Feel free to correct me if I am misrepresenting you Rose!) These taboos describe those behaviours or views that society does not accept as a normal part of what it is to be human, although in reality they form part of the legitimate spectrum of humanity. (On the other hand, those taboos that represent activities or views that impinge on the freedom or wellbeing of others are not ok to break.) There are the ideas of objectification for sexual pleasure, subjugation of ones self to the will or desires of another, and engaging in sexual activity with another species - all of which fall outside society's view of what it is to be human. Powerful motivators! Hence, in the eyes of society, to choose to engage in those activities is to allow yourself to be 'dehumanised' (note the Australian spelling!). It is important to draw the clear distinction between someone who chooses to be 'dehumanised' for pleasure, and someone who has is forced upon them (never ok). To accept that part of yourself that society at large does not, and to act on it, is indeed liberating. It seems to me, Rose, that you are a sub, and in need of exploring and developing that part of your nature and sexuality. It does require training, which needs to be at the hands of someone who will genuinely enjoy dominating you in the way that you desire, and yet still respect you. Ideally someone who has enough experience to creatively push your limits without you having any fear about safety. However, a novice can develop with you, as good mutual communication about desires and limits is the key, as is an essential trust. If your play is to involve a non-human then it is (of course) essential that they are a willing participant, and that your dom is aware of what behavious is and isn't appropriate in their presence (again, a matter of [/B]). As for body modification (if I got that abbreviation right), it's not necessary, but if that's what you want to do, go for it! Either way, You will need to invest in some equipment and accessories to expand your play possibilities and to authenticate your subjugation. I wish you joy on your journey. Moh.PS any doms (esp M) as descibed above who happen to be in my part of OZ (Perth, SW) please feel free to get in touch! [EMAIL REMOVED - USE THE PRIVATE MESSAGE SYSTEM]
To be de humanized,I think would not make you a human being unless your speaking of Humilation.
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Hi John - (refer to paragraph 2 of my post above re the notion of dehumanisation) - humiliation has a slightly different judgement attached to it which is associated with shame (and degradation) - and that can also work just fine if that's your thing Cheers. Moh
You cannot be dehumanized. You are a human. That's never going to change -- sorry.Perhaps you mean finding a way to be free from all the cares and insecurities of the modern condition? I'd suggest either drugs or alcohol, or perhaps something a little healthier, like Buddhism. That becomes a religious discussion, so I'll leave it there.I find this argument over the objectification of women rather interesting. Nobody raises a cry when some skinny dude with six-pack abs is shown on TV or in porn or on the cover of romance novels, and yet any time an anorexic bimbette is shown on TV, there are howls of outrage. Everyone is compared to unrealistic ideals these days; considering that most (>60%) Americans are overweight, showing only skinny -- borderline malnourished -- models in our popular culture is a curious choice.But even so, I fight the political correctness urge. I don't go out of my way to offend people (why?) but then again, I don't spend undue time worrying if I've offended them either. It's every person's job to be a responsible, grown-up adult, and if someone hurts your feelings -- don't talk to them anymore. It's really that simple.I think that what the OP is talking about is, again, the distinction between love and lust. No, no, bear with me. I think that on the one hand, a lot of women (and men) are frustrated at being held up as sex objects -- where your appearance matters the most, and all anyone cares about is having an orgasm. So people demand "love" and "respect" and all that good stuff.Nothing wrong with love and respect and tenderness. But let's face it, ladies, sometimes you, like us guys, just want a good, hard f***. You don't necessarily want to be cuddled and told you're special; I mean, that's always nice, but it may not be what you want this instant. So if we go too far in the political correctness direction, which says that lust is bad or scary and only love and respect and all that are good, you lose out. You end up with a generation of wimpy men who are sweet and good daddies and cuddly and don't know how to just take you, bend you over, and f*** you hard. Rover can do that, so why can't Mr. Right?I'm sure some of my readers are shocked. This kind of talk... why... why that's r*** (the word that rhymes with grape and means forced sex), right?? No, of course not. We're still talking consensuality. But I'm also talking about getting back to our animal natures, which sometimes don't want lovey-dovey touchy-feely politically correct new age crap and just want to screw. This is what a lot of SNAG's (sensitive, New Age guys) have forgotten. It's good to be respectful and gentle. But there is also a time to be aggressive, forceful, and take what you want. If you forget how to be an animal, you can never be fully human (there's a Zen koan I'll leave for my readers )Frankly, I think that that's half the draw of animals for a lot of people. I know it is for me. They're so honest. They're not going to call you in the morning. They're not going to pretend to never have eyes for anyone else. They want sex, and you'll give them sex, so they'll screw you. Where's the harm?I think that many (not all -- we're all different -- but many) of us beasty people just end up projecting onto animals all the frustrations and suppressed wishes we can't express in polite society.I suspect that that's part of what's going on for the OP. All the niceties she discusses -- nice clothes and makeup -- animals don't care about that. It always makes me laugh to see a woman in lingerie in a dog porn video; like the dog cares! I think sometimes that zoosex reminds us that we are animals. There is no distinction between humans and animals; we're just animals with a different shape. We have the capacity -- just like a dog or a horse -- to be lustful, tender, apathetic, friendly, or violent.Maybe we all need reminding of that from time to time. And (as long as we're not forcing or harming animals!) zoosex is good for that. There's no pretense -- just instinct, pursuit, and pleasure.What a relief!
I don't like the idea of being uncivilized or the idea of either being excessively dominant or submissive. Each has a role and is important. But I also really hate the idea that people are something seperate from animals. It sounds very creepy, and every time time I hear it, I try to change the subject. I wish I was sure how such an idea came into our culture. It seems to deny who we are, like we should feel guilt for being flesh and blood, and feels absolutely barbaric to me. The two ideas humiliation having a positive effect as well as embrassing yourself as a biological, normal, everyday being sounds like an oxymoron to me. Sorry, what was the question?
Hi Rose1,Love your posts. By "dehumanization" are you thinking of submission to the dog where you submit yourself to the will and lust of your dog? That sounds HOT!
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