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Do you ever wonder why the way that we are? Do you ever wonder why mother nature made us interested in zoo/beast? With life as difficult as it is I just wonder why?
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Ahh, the ever present and underlying question...... No one (mother nature included) had anything to do with my emotional makeup, it stopped with my physical appearance. I made the conscious choice to sleep with dogs. I wanted the unconditional love they offered and I needed to feel close to something else without the fear of conscious rejection. Unless you treat an animal badly, they have no reason to turn on you, whereas we have the odd ability to hurt others and the victim is left asking "why?"It also has to do with my defiant attitude and the desire to be abberant. This doesn't mean that I have a lot of tatoos or dress a certain way, it just makes me feel as if I'm some sort of avenger against hypocracy and unhappiness. If the shoe fits, wear it.If I wanted something different or if I wanted to stop, I would. (the addicts motto, I know ) My love for animals is deep, it's a zen thing for me. Calming just like a cigarette. I feel better being content with my choices and taking advantage of a dogs natural tendancies towards attachment. I give love where it's deserved and IMO, there is nothing nobler than an animal.
Hard to say, I believe it is a genetic trait, but genes are only the bricks, the environment is the mason that puts them together, so a trigger or group of triggers must be activated, and then you must accept consciously what is happening to you, in other words it's partly our fault.
This is a great question.Although I dont have an answer, I feel that these feelings have allways been a part of me. I have allways kept to myself and shyed awayfrom people all my life. I have allways had strong feelings, and devotion to animals way before I ever possesed sexual feelings for them.(female dogs)Im not sure if these sexaul feelings are somthing I was born with or somthingthat developed after a childhood of love and devotion to these animals.I have two female dogs now and love them more than anything else.They are my joy in life.We have a beuatiful emotional relationship, and a wonderful sexual relationship also.The reason I think the sex is so great is because they love it too.If they didnt like it then I wouldnt either, but I would stillhave the same feelings for them emotionally.This probably dont answer yourquestion but I thought I would share it with you anyway. Best wishes to you, and take care. "Jezz"
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I belive I was born this way. I always said "god made a mistake I should have been a dog!" IDK I like dogs and they like me. I also feel the same as Shane J I don't want to be rejected so you know the dog wants it too.
I guess it's the end result of all sorts of factors - there's probably not just one thing to 'blame'. Genes, upbringing, environment and events come to mind.
Dang what a great queation! Maybe we are the way we are just because thts the way things ened up? Maybe we are the way we are because of the social psyogoligical environments, honest its hard to say.I am a gay guy and have been awear of this for a very long time, I dont know what there is about being with a animal or another species, it dosnt feel wrong or bad, only from what others impose upon me. The dectation of what other people think and say , man who knows. I have never felt more loyal love then from my pets, umm its hard to say. Great question!
I find it very interesting -although not surprising -that "unconditional" and "rejection" are menetioned on several occasions... that's not it at all for me personally - I like taking "risk" -and I realized long ago that I can't be everyones cup of tea - I get more than my fair share of action -but I can't -nor would want to - be everyones type...athough I have always loved animals - I must admit that my first interest were lust and kink associated but as the ole saying goes - it's not how you get somewhere -it's that you get there -and it took little time before I matured and realized that it was something much deeper...we all have our own make up (dtdab wears his well) -but seriously we do all have our personal componets that makes us happy and sexually happy - in sexually unrelated topics I am not a "people pleaser" -ohh I know -surprise you -ummm not a word out of any of you but yet -sexually I am quite the reverse - and THRIVE on satisfaction -and in both directions - FIRST the partners -and then my own -and just why should I deprived all the beautiful creatures of this world -and myself -of this wonderful gift? and well - I guess that's what it boils down to for me - it is just that simple... I love -and I am very sexual -and I refuse to put limitations on either of those components -I am a gay male (bi zoo interest) and I fully believe that I didn't make that choice -but I have slept with woman on occassions when it was the right situation - and it has always been quite satisfying - if we all put our motives up against the standard test "is it unselfish" and allow our hearts to guide us -I think we lead ourselves to the right choices and the right situations for all involved...
I was attracted to horses before I had even seen one in person, and the only reason I can give that I became a horse zoo is simply that I was just plain lucky!
I dont believe it is a choice but it has lots to do with genes, enviornment and everything in between...lots of "swiches" to make us who we are.My first zoo love/thoughts were toward trail horses in summer camp at age 8 but i didnt really understand sex at that time its just something that confused and drew me to them.I reflect and now realize this.I lost my virginity to my house k9s at and had my first human sex at equine love I finally experianced at 35.anyone know of affordable land (in southern florida)for my future ranch?edit: censors brought to you by southflorida FOLKS how many times do we need to remind you about underage references?
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I didnt make any secision.As far as I can remember I have been a massive animal fan,I still am.Once I became sexually aware fo myself I noticed myself looking underhorses tails and nothings changed since edit: censor brought to you by southflorida...member your language barrier here is the only thing that has saved you -because I can't distinquish wether you were refering to your age -or how many years ago...folks - PLEASE - we recieve comments from members who say that we are not allowing freeedom of expression when we lock down threads -and if we don't -you see what happens - one ban already and another VERY close call... I will leave it to the discretion of the rest of the mod team to see if we even aloow the thread to remain unlocked. We try to save you from yourselves.
Thanks everybody, these answers are great, and very interesting along with informative.(im not sure if the young ages mentioned are appropiate)but thats not for me to decide.This is a great question for a topic and I love all the answers that are here.I hope to read more thoughts from other zoo's and thanks to all who have posted, your thoughts have been much appreciated by me.sincerly, "jezz"
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Hi Jezz. Interesting discussion here. Sure there can be something genetic or environmental, but to sum it up, I feel that the greatest thing in life is to love and be loved in return. We have simply evolved in our love to include all whoom we love, including animals. Sex is an extension of that. And since our love is more evolved, then who better to recieve love in return from than love in it's purist form, unconditional love. There is no "defect" or "fault" I believe that it is just the opposite. If only the whole world can learn to evolve their love as well, it sure would be a better place to live!!!
I have always been attracted to animals but I was sexually abused as a boy and I always have wondered if thats what keeps me this way? Part of it is the love factor. I do not have zoosex anymore but my pets are very dear to me and I love them like a family member. I have always felt safe around animals.
I love questions like this, where no answer is either correct or wrong.Like I've always said in most my posts, I am curious, the beginning stage that most of everyone starts off in. Ever since I could remember I've loved Anthro type creatures, and always will, which the animal basis to an Anthro is a large factor in it for me. Also fantasy grows deeper with age, least that is what quite few people have told me and what I believe. For myself, it is what Southflorida said "That’s not it at all for me personally - I like taking "risk" "Although I have always loved animals - I must admit that my first interest were lust and kink associated "What I'm saying, risk, adventure, curiosity, kink and lust, that is where my interest lies right now. As far as I know, it might simply remain a fantasy and I will never go any further than what I am now. People could bring in Nurture vs. Nature as what might have resulted in people's choices of direction, but things just get to complicated then.I've enjoyed reading the rest of your posts on this thread and can't wait to read others!Stay Furry!=^.^=
its funny growing up i grew up on a large farm we had a million milk cows i think i had to get up and milk cows at the crack of dawn there is nothing like getting out of a warm bed and having the first cow leak on ya or not want to be milked the one morning i was mad and i said i wish they would all fill up with milk and blow up my dad grabed me by the hair and took me out side and said you dont have to like them but you will give them respect i spent alot of time thinking of that and his words followed me through life i love my dogs and give them all the respect in the world my anser would be i have always loved animals i lost my verginity with a farm dog so its natural to me i tried human females and they are wonderful but i love my dogs and thats wair i want to be in there paws
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you know... I have no idea. I guess one thing that may have contributed to it is my sexually confused childhood. (my dad was a drag queen.) getting mixed messages about male, female, right, wrong, it all is kind of enough to skew anyone's point of view at an early age. so I was kind of raised realizing that love and sex really isn't what everyone makes it out to be, its so much more. Everyone has different ways of expressing their sexuality. My late father loved being pretty, and I love animals. I guess it all kind of works out.
no reference to age here, but i was raised on a farm and LOVED my ponies, both male and female as often as they wanted me too. it just seemed very natural so yes, guess it was environment as a number one..... but hey,,,, i was attracted to them ALL my life and it continues to get more intense all the time........
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the negation of that question is: Why are there people who do not like animals?Since we have a capacity of love for animals, then we have the capacityof being sexually attracted to animals; I for one love and find very attractive:women, mares, bitches and ewes. All other animals I love but am not sexuallyaroused by them, and still love their honest innocence and beauty.Imagine, if you can, looking at asskickin' beautiful eagle or irish setter bitch andfeeling only cold detachment...Old Zoo you are right; We are just plain lucky....! Phantom Beast
I don't know, but I think I just answered much of your orig. question in the General forum section, why we are the way we are (its instinctual).
Thanks for all your comments. I agree that not all animals are sexual attractive to me. With me its mares and bitches. I just find it fascinating how sexually obtuse our species is.I love cats but I am not attracted at all to them. Interesting indeed!
Hello Everyone,First of all I would like to thank gpk for asking this question. Also I would like to thank the Mods of this forum for allowing this thread to remain open!This is a question I have been asking myself quite a bit recently. It is the main reason I came to this forum. I was going to post a thread on it but you beat me to the punch gpk! My story goes along with what several people have said here. I think I had a predisposition to this kind of behavior, either by nature or nurture or both. The only thing I would like to know is what was the event that gave me the push over the edge. I describe it like that because I feel like I litteraly "fell" into this lifestyle. It may have even been out of my control, predestined? For years I never had any interest sexually in animals. I never even remotely considered it. Then one day - pow! It just hit. I saw a horse in a pasture and for some unexplainable reason wanted sex badly. I acted on that impulse that night. That is how strong the desire was! Within a matter of hours I went from "conventional" to zoophilic. It happened so fast that it was like a switch was turned on in me! Suddenly I found horses to be these incredibly sexy creatures and I couldn't be around them enough! I still can't explain it or why it happened so fast.P.S.I am looking through past posts looking for similar threads to this one. If anyone can refer one to me, I would like to read it.Thank you,Grevy
I have loved animals as far back as I can remember. I don't get any arousal from humans. Strangly enough, when I do have sexual interaction with humans I get a odd feeling that I am doing something un-natural. I had only one cat growing up so I didn't get lots of experence with animals till I got older, but I know I loved horses long before I had ever seen one in person. Due to the combination of not having any animals as a child, and going through denial of my sexual feelings, I didn't lose my virginity till I was 21. I mated a nice palomino mare, and was bred by an awesome black lab in the same day. After that i realized what I had been missing. I went to see a Shrink to see if what I was feeling was caused be a mental illness. He said that there was nothing wrong with me, and these feelings are just who I am and I should accept them, and that accepting them would ease my worried mind. He told me that Zoophilia is no different than any other sexuality, unless it was cause by a specific type of abuse, its a natural part of who you are. I have lived by that idea now for 9 years. And although I do at times envy "straight" people, I feel blessed that God chose me for this lifestyle.
Just to add likely zero extra value to the topic... I think about this constantly. Funny, as I'm getting old, and I really should just flow with it... I too liked animals (not sexually, but powerfully) basically always... Things were rough, you'd rage at the world, but you couldn't rage at animals 'cause they didn't know any better, they were always there for you. When it came to sex, I first liked humans, and at some point it dawned on me that these wonderful furry guys and gals in my life were also possibly sexual creatures, aren't they, and hey, so could it possibly... ? Bang. Done. Wired. Never going back (and I wasted a number of years trying, believe me...)But the 'why'... Lure of the forbidden as someone growing up in an fairly oppresive religious world, possibly. A very quiet rebellion of doggy licks? I dunno. Wasn't really that conscious, I don't think. It just fits like new lego. CLICK. This is right. I mean, obviously it's wrong (remember the religion thing) but, it's... just... right. It feels good, he/she is happy, I'm happy. Now, I've had that with humans, too. even though at times I really feel I should hate society (to quote Douglas Coupland's Gen X book, "We're all behaving like insects" ) I think I'm relatively integrated, functioning, social cog in that whole messy machine... But the human thing is not so integral to my being (and I have been both without human lovers and without animal lovers for stretches) so ... I'm rambling, I guess I could just have cut all this out and pasted, "dunno" to save you time... Another thread could be "Have you ever tried to 'unzoo'?"... Good freakin' luck. May as well tell a gay to get married. It's a recipe for alcoholism!
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zoomaster it was awful brave of you to admit that to another person especially a professional one i liked the answer he gave you must have been a very smart man
I had asked this question of my self many times. Why, Why me? Why? I grew up as a good looking young man and had many girlfriends. I dated most of the best looking girls in my class. But sex with them did not seem natural. It was not easy, although I came to accept it in order to be normal with society.There were two things from as far back as I can remember when I was growing up that I have always wanted. And they were a piano and a pony. I felt I loved music and I had a deep yurning to develop some kind of kinship with a horse or pony. Don't know what it was that made me feel this way. Still don't and that was over 45 years ago. Perhaps the best explanation is that I was just born this way. Just as someone is born to be musically talented, I was also born to have an attraction to horses too.I had tried to change several times in my past, but after being without for even short periods of time, I started to become frustrated and easily irritated. I used opportunities like going to college, and getting engaged to be married as good reasons to stop, but they never worked. I would have constant dreams about ponies and horses when in their absence.Through the years I had come to accept it as "that is just the way it is". I have kept regular woman girlfriends so as to appear normal in society. Some I have not had sex with, but kept as friends so others would think I am normal. I had to plan my life so animals would always be a part of it, that is why I have a farm.Although I know this activity is not normal, and I don't ever want to intentionally hurt any animal, somehow deep down, I still feel that humans having unnatural sexual relations with animals (especially small animals where injury and infection can result) is wrong. I definitely do not think animals should be prostituted or sold for sex. To me the thought of someone else having sex with my pony would make me angry, as if someone was raping a normal mans wife.If I was able to change I would. So of you who choose this lifestyle, choose differently if you can. Don't become addicted to this erotic stuff. There is more to life than sex with an animal, no matter what you may find here.
QUOTE (ponylove @ Sep 2 2005, 06:23 PM) If I was able to change I would. So of you who choose this lifestyle, choose differently if you can. Don't become addicted to this erotic stuff. There is more to life than sex with an animal, no matter what you may find here. Liked your post, but a Q: Do you really think anyone 'chooses'? I guess maybe the 'hey, it'd be cool to watch my wife screw a dog' people could be getting into it more and more until the wife is gone and it's just him and the dog, but people like you (apparently) and I seem to be wired this way from way early on, thanks to X (where X equals god knows what... )Wisp
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Hmm a good question.In a part of my life i am "normal" i am married and happy with the sex i have with my human partner - but my sex fantasies are always about reptiles ... they were sice i was 12 ...Even as a child i loved touching snakes and lizards ... (it had there never something sexual till i was 12 or 13 but it was like someone who loves touching soft fur for my touching scaly animals ...)Maybe it comes from this time...But i never wished i wouldent have these erotic feelings when i even SEE a reptile.These feelings are good - and i dont know WHAT other people have for feelings ...Maybe there are more zoos around then we think.Better be a zoo and getting turned on by animals then someone who dreams about sex with children or raping other people ect (fantasies about forcing animals to do what they dont want is not ok for me too).EDIT: If i had to choos this life or a "normal" i would choose again this life...
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My first reply to this topic was a bit glib because it is a very involved question, and I think I owe the conversation a bit more explanation, especially since so many of you are still anguishing over being zoos. This may offend some people's belief systems, but so be it. Like so many of you, I have been zoo all my life, and for much of this time I felt somehow I was abnormal and probably a bad person because my society so strongly condemned what I was. As years went by I fought in a war, built a business, and moved through all sorts of social stratas from the top to the bottom. Eventually I came to realize that we in society are controlled by a quiltwork of carefully crafted myths.Myth 1 is religion, all religion. No body has any proof what-so-ever that there is a god at all, much less what he wants us to do. Ancient scribblings are not proof of anything except that those myth builders could write. This has not kept man from inventing plenty of gods to keep the peasants in line. So strong are these myths that when they are challenged the true believers go wild and usually start killing people of some other religion. I am convinced they do this because they are afraid to ask themselves if their myth is really true!Myth 2 is patriotism. We are told that killing is ok if it is done in a war with people of another belief system or country despite what myth 1 always says about not killing. We are told that we owe our country this duty to "protect" our country even when it is impossible to see how a particular war is protecting us from the enemy. This does not mean all wars are unavoidable for our country, just most of them. Worse if you have ever taken a life in combat you know that it changes you forever. It is not ok even if it was necessary under the circumstances.Myth 3 is that the living world is made up of plants, animals, and people. People are animals...get over it!Myth 4 is about sex. We are told that the purpose of sex is to make children (family values), and that is clearly the reason we evolved such pleasure generating genital organs. Yet if one looks around the world, the very last thing this world needs is a kid popping out every time some guy shoots his load! We are like mold on a fruit and the planet is about to collapse under our weight anyhow. Those who believe in myth 1 think their god is going to take care of this problem (that is one of the great things about myth1), but if you don't have myth 1 to rely on you get real damn nervous.So what is right and what is wrong. It is very simple. If you wouldn't want it done to you, then it is probably wrong to do it to someone or something else.Zoos, gays, and other non-reproductive sexual persons are therefore doing the world a favor in not reproducing. And while some beastial acts are clearly cruel, real zoos love animals and will never intentionally hurt one.The final proof of the whole morality myth-lie is this. The religiously "moral" people who most strongly condemn us as being animal abusers have no problem at all with the atrocities our society inflicts upon animals in slaughter plants, factory farms, and experimental laboratories. This blindness to true cruelty invalidates their vote as to what is right and wrong about us. Once you see the myths for what they are you can truly be free of the needless guilt. Invent your own myth 1 or pick one of the older ones that encouraged mingling with our brother creatures! Just don't get caught violating the rules of the dominant myth 1 in your society or the high priests will crucify you. God bless you my children, go forth and be fruitless!OZ
QUOTE (Old Zoo @ Sep 3 2005, 06:38 AM) My first reply to this topic was a bit glib because it is a very involved question, and I think I owe the conversation a bit more explanation, especially since so many of you are still anguishing over being zoos. This may offend some people's belief systems, but so be it. ... Old Zoo,You could not be so correct in your assessment of human relationships with respect to religion, politics, and social norms.I myself can never resolve the conflict between war and religion. It seems like we as a society critize those that justify killing in the name of god, be we as Americans do the very same thing. Animals have the perfect order. Humans kill for sport not out of necessity. If we were true to our social morals, killing of all animals for sport should be outlawed.ponylove
Hi Ponylove,Yup! Once you see the patterns you are free! The one principle of good and evil and right and wrong I mentioned is incorporated into all the religious myths (do unto others as you would have them do unto you...etc.). All the other rules flow from this at first (eg: Thou shalt not kill). This is all done because it establishes legitimacy for the ground rules of the myth because it reinforces a principle everyone knows instinctively. Why do we "know" this? Simply put, creatures that obey this principle are able to develop cooperative communities and survive better than those who don't! Darwin at work!Having used this trick to claim the moral high ground, religions begin distorting the rules for their own purposes! We laugh at the idea that muslim teenagers are promised 70 virgins in paradise, but don't look at all the crap our own religions support.How did the Puritans violate "Thou shalt not kill" when they burned the poor boy Granger at the stake along with the animals he was accused of shagging? Easy, they just put on a rider to the rules. In the end the basic principles mean nothing and you have institutions like the Christian right supporting the most demented of cruelties. Whenever they need to justify something terrible they just rummage through all the scribblings of their myth makers and find a line like "if a man layeth with an animal he shall be put to death and thou shall kill the animal." If you control the myth, you have the authority of god and you control the peasants.And why does organized religion turn a blind eye to animal suffering? Easy, if you start treating animals decently you won't be able to exploit them for gold. Therefore they create the "plant, animal, man" myth, and why they hate Darwin so much! In the end they turn morality on its head. To me, most religions are simply used by their heirarchy to mask greed, power mongering, and all the other vices of man. How many more examples do we need to see before we admit this? I have posted this reasoning elsewhere and religious zealots have challenged me with nothing better than "you are disgusting" or "god will get you". They call it "faith" because you can't reason with it! We laugh at the ancient myth like the Roman gods, but no one dare challege the modern ones.Are there spiritual powers and forces we don't understand? Maybe so, but they have little or nothing to do with most the religious myths. I think the Tibetans had it close to right with their respect for all life, but their myth is almost wiped out now. Onward Christian soldiers!OZ
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QUOTE (Old Zoo @ Sep 3 2005, 06:57 PM) Yup! Once you see the patterns you are free! The one principle of good and evil and right and wrong I mentioned is incorporated into all the religious myths (do unto others as you would have them do unto you...etc.). All the other rules flow from this at first (eg: Thou shalt not kill). This is all done because it establishes legitimacy for the ground rules of the myth because it reinforces a principle everyone knows instinctively. Why do we "know" this? Simply put, creatures that obey this principle are able to develop cooperative communities and survive better than those who don't! Darwin at work! Actually, as a once religious person, I found that you can be much more 'moral' if you use the central ideas of most major religions, but throw away all the crap. Basically, if you "do unto others as you would have done unto you" (bad paraphrase) you end up with basically a very surprisingly moral world where you can't steal, can't carpet bomb, can't hurt anyone (man or beast) probably even have a hard time eating an animal... It's quite amazing the loopholes you can find when religious texts are full of hundreds of pages of other crap...
QUOTE (Old Zoo @ Sep 3 2005, 06:57 PM) Yup! Once you see the patterns you are free! The one principle of good and evil and right and wrong I mentioned is incorporated into all the religious myths (do unto others as you would have them do unto you...etc.). All the other rules ... OZ,I basically agree with you. I feel religion had started as a way to explain the unexplainable.I feel, throughout time, people have high-jacked religion to impose their personal moral judgments on its followers. I guess it all comes down to money, power, and greed.But one other interesting thought from the Darwin theory, is: "The strong survive". As animals evolve, the weak or sick don't stick around long. Conquer or be conquered. I had wondered if our aggression as humans is a throwback to the survival of the fittest thought. If our instinct is first to insure that our species survives, via dominance and reproduction, I can see were war is justifiable, but not morally acceptable. In the animal world, there seems to be an almost perfect balance. I say almost because creatures do evolve and the world does change (entropy I guess). Baring environment changes, man has upset that partial imbalance.What this has to do with man procreating with beast, well ....
Here's some interesting facts to throw at people if they're flaming you for being a zoo, but only use it as a smoke cover to make your escape, it's ill advised to use these as reasons, they're logic busters.1.) Interspecies breeding goes on all the time and some of it because of human intervention. Without it, we wouldn't have mules (one of the Ceasars of Rome was actually came from a mule breeding family).2.) Nature isn't always a good thing to gauge our own actions by. If we used the bottle-nosed dolphin, then beastiality would be more common place (male bottle-nosed dolphins will poke their naughty bits into other creatures- turtles, sharks, eels- and even other dolphins) along with sex slaves (They also form gangs and kidnap females to be their sex slaves.) (From the book "A Tiger in the Bedroom" by Katherine Gould).Why am I an equine devotee? I owe horses my psychological health, plain and simple. I wouldn't mate with a mare, unless I was a stallion and if you know any anthro-mares, don't hold me back (I'm furry as well). Considering sex doesn't have much meaning with me, mating a mare doesn't interest me, except in the name of equine sexuality liberation. *Holds up a sign saying: "Liberate equine sexuality!"*
QUOTE If I was able to change I would. So of you who choose this lifestyle, choose differently if you can. Don't become addicted to this erotic stuff. There is more to life than sex with an animal, no matter what you may find here. Ponylove,That was a ballsy thing to say here! You have my admiration. I will add that I agree with you. If I could live my life over and I had the choice of living it with zoophilic desires or without, I'd pick without.I can't say if I chose this lifestyle but I have it and I have to deal with it.All the best,Grevy
You guys are making some good points and so I will go a bit deeper into how I see things to answer the points you raise. First let me say that our brains are like computers with ROM, RAM, and Memory. The ROM is the built in knowledge that is there from the beginning and unchangable. In a computer it tells the CPU how to read enough of the nonvolatile memory (disk system tracks) to boot up the operating system. In a new born foal it tells him how to get to his feet and find his mother's tits. In a mother it tells her how to take care of her newborne, etc. We have long realized that later learned experiences are put into RAM and then long term memory if they are important.Our ROMs come with "knowledge" that we get from our genes. This knowledge is designed to give us a head start on survival and to react to situations we have never encountered before. The rule "Do unto others" is in our ROM because it will allow us to cooperate with others of our gene pool to assure mutual survival. The next big concept to grasp is that we as individuals are not the really complete things. We are a mechanism our genes use to assure their continuation, and each generation represents a possible adjustment in strategy. Think of us as disposable mechanisms to our genes. We are just the latest models they have produced. Gene patterns are in a continual battle for survival. Now comes the concept of "The Strongest Survive". That is most true of the genes, not the individuals. A very powerful person or animal who cannot form cooperative relationships with mates and peers is all alone in the world and will not be likely to pass along his genes as well as cooperative creatures do.It used to be thought that gene mutations were random events that happen all the time, but it has now been shown that organisms mutate their genes much more rapidly when under stress, and even that these mutations are not random at all. Some bacteria that have been unchanged for millions of years have now mutated so they are not only resistant to penecilin, but can actually digest it!WAR. We used to think that only man had wars, because it seemed to counter the instinct to "Do unto others". Now we know that pods of dolphins have wars as do ants and even chimps. This usually happens when the [SPAM] have been split away from each other enough that they represent at least slightly different gene pools, and it is accelerated when they are under stress. Both Germany and Japan launched WWII invasions because they wanted more resources for their gene pools (read cultures). Listen to Hitler's early speeches about "Superior Blood" and you will see what I mean (Nazism was another religious myth). Both countries were under stress. Germany was suffering economic stress and Japan was over crowded, and both lacked natural resources.It is becoming more evident all the time that somehow we are able to take learned things out of our memory and encode them into inherent knowledge for our children. The process is clearly not perfect, but it is not at all random either. We have all noticed how quickly youth pick up skills that were hard for their parents.For example, why is cannibalism almost always taboo, even for tribes and cultures that are at war. Why not eat the enemy? The reason turns out to be a nasty little prion (the same mechanism as causes "mad cow disease"). It has been found to ravage the few tribes that practice cannibalism. The mechanism in cows came from feeding ground up cows back to other cows, and in cannibals it is analogous. The top-down food chain of nature aviods passing these warped protiens around. Therefore most genes imparted the knowledge that "cannibalism is taboo". This taboo plays with "Do unto others" to tell us that we should be good to our family first, then our neighbors, then our larger communities. This is the order of genetic "closeness". SEX. So, how does this all this play into why we tend to feel abnormal and people tend to see us as bad? The answer is that everyone's genes wants them to procreate, so anything that doesn't make more babies is "known" to be bad. That is why the religious myth beleivers say with such conviction that they just know what we do is terrible! Adultry is wrong because it takes support away from the offsring that are needed to keep the genes going. Thus the "Family Values" rhetoric that rings such a bell with right wing Christian true believers.They feel it is wrong and their myth keepers have already given them some scribblings to prove it all. In otherwords, religions are often formed out of a desire to explain our ROM "knowledge". Then the religious leaders go on to enrich themselves by further manipulating it all.Unfortunately our genes have not yet "learned" about over loading our planet because technology has protected us from much of the stress that would otherwise be on us already. Our only ROM response is war, and in the nuclear age that is a very bad idea if your genes want to stay connected in strands longer than a few molecules.Species that have been through this regularly, like wolves, have built in mechanisms for preventing overcrowding. If hunting is good, the two or even three most dominant pairs may breed, but as it gets worse only the alpha pair may breed and even they may go sterile. Cross Species Cooperation (Symbiotic Relationships):One of the most amazing behaviors passed in some creatures ROM "knowledge" is how to cooperate with other species. Dogs and Horses have this "knowledge" that working with humans can be a good survival strategy. Wolves and ravens do the same thing with raven flocks attaching themselves to wolf packs and acting as spotters. Even some predatory fish have such relationships with cleaner fish. The cleaner fish "know" they can go into the mouths of these predators with total trust.Thus we zoos are most prone to see symbiotic species as potential lovers. That is one reason why 99% of all zoo acts are with dogs and horses and a few other domestic animals. We in fact represent a good trend if our genes are going to avoid suicide as do the gays and other nonreproducers. It is entirely possible that zoo behavior will turn out to be a response of our genes to the stresses of overcrowding. You can tell many zoos express distain for crowded areas like cities.In summary, religion is a way of myth telling to explain things people feel about what is right and wrong. Unfortunately it legitamizes prejudices that have nothing to do with true kindness. Many great thinkers have come to the concusion that the greatness of societies can be measured in the way they treat animals. In otherwords, our society moves beyond the pettiness of our genes ambitions.In conclusion, I am the way I am because I am very lucky! (I warned you it was a complex subject)OZ
A complex subject posted well...thank you, OZ!
QUOTE (Old Zoo @ Sep 5 2005, 04:57 AM) You guys are making some good points and so I will go a bit deeper into how I see things to answer the points you raise. .... OZ, or anyone readingWell that was a mouth full OZ.Basically I agree with your premise. Genes do mutate randomly, and perhaps the direction of a mutation can be altered by the environment.Of course it is all about genes like you said. That's the reason way everything is, is not, what will be, and what will not be. This is a very interesting subject to read about with respect to evolution. The tricks nature can play. Amazing.You have seen the plots of the population curve no doubt. Your point about a self population correction mode I believe is true. Diseases are one, dissolution of the family, electing not to have kids, and yes, fucking animals??. Never looked it quite that way, but when someone gets on the soap box about world population, I'll just reply, Hey, I am dong my part, I have relations with animas not humans. I guess Bush uses bombs. Maybe I should get a tax credit.Just another though for you about genes, probabilities, and mutations. Eventually, given enough people fucking animals, that eventually, something will mutate permitting a fetus to grow. They can do it in a lab, why not nature? I would love to have a Centaur, or better yet to produce one.About your ROM and some RAM (animals) verses some ROM and RAM (programmable memory) for humans. If you have ever seen the movie KPAX. It has a very interesting line in it. Towards the end of the movie, an earth person had asked the alien, "well how do your people know the difference between right and wrong than?" The alien replied to the earth person in a matter of fact way" Well, every being in the universe is born with that knowledge." I believe that.
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Hi PonyLove,You cracked me up with your idea about zoos getting a tax break! I think it will be a while before the Bush administration goes for that idea!The one really important thing I forgot to mention about religious myths is the most obvious, they all tell you that you are not really going to die! Big seller that one! People will over look a lot of inconsistency and dubious stuff before they give up on that idea.I know my philosophy is rather complex, but it all fits the known facts. It is the general conclusion that science is coming to, and that is why the Christian right fights Darwinism so hard. OZ
Ponylove I agree with what you said about if enought people [EMAIL REMOVED - USE THE PRIVATE MESSAGE SYSTEM];ing animals, that over time mutation/gene evolution will happen. Like you i would also love to able to produce a draft foal. And if that did happen the f!@#ed up goverment would find away to get involved some way to make money from the mutations/gene evolution even though the goverenment collects enough money the way it is already. Argius ~__/>
Wow, what an interesting question... I've never thought about it before, it's just always been there. At first I found the furry community and identified with it more closely than I ever have with the rest of the world.I can't think of any reason that isn't more of a spiritual thing for me, so... I suppose the Gods make you the way you are for a reason. Just as some people feel normal with people of the same sex, it just "clicks". Like when you find your own personal religion, and it "clicks" in your mind and just feels right.
A friend and I have found that our very similar experiences early in life may be a key factor in why we are attracted to animals. I believe that in our early childhood when our brains were still growing we could have been exposed to pheromones from a certain animal tricking our brains into thinking that we are attracted to them..... I know a horse’s pheromones are very similar to those produced by a human so it would probably have a big effect on setting our mental picture of what we find attractive especially if it was at a stage in our lives when our brains were still developing or growing. both me and my friend had an experience with a mare when we were around the same age, and in my case I know now the mare I met was in heat. When I came in contact with this animal I had a very strong urge to just get close to her. My friend said he experienced basically the same feelings toward the mare he met. I know that even as adults our brains are very sensitive to pheromones. I think that when we were younger (before we developed an attraction to the opposite sex) we were exposed to the pheromones of a certain species besides our own, and we associated that species with sexual attraction. When everyone else was just starting to gradually become attracted to the opposite/same sex, we had already been exposed to that kind of attraction … just not with humans….Just my theory on the subject.
I think its natural. Everyone would do this unless they are trained away from it. As with emotional love. Many think they know or have known it, but in reality, few have. If we grew up unhindered, we'd be much more promiscuous and superficial about enjoying animals as well as each the other.
Good point Rose. The Bonobo monkeys are totally unhibited sexually. Everybody in the band does something with everyone else, and guess what? They have the lowest incidence of violence of any monkey. Supression brings on hostility.
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Why ask why? Just accept your fate on this earth, and move on. A vastly more important question: Why do men have nipples?Edit: I don't mean to be changing the topic, it's just that, to me, the thought of questioning my zoo is a total non-issue. I've long ago accepted it for myself. For me, the question was never why, but when. And the answer to that question is on the floor behind me, whining because I'm not looking at him.
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in the words of the late great dr Kinsey. The only unnatural sex act is not having sex at all, after that its all about opertunitys and preferences
QUOTE (Zeaux @ Sep 8 2005, 07:31 AM) Why ask why? Just accept your fate on this earth, and move on. A vastly more important question: Why do men have nipples?Edit: I don't mean to be changing the topic, it's just that, to me, the thought of questioning my zoo is a total non-issue. I've long ago accepted it for myself. For me, the question was never why, but when. And the answer to that question is on the floor behind me, whining because I'm not looking at him. Why men have nipples
QUOTE (Sno Abyss @ Sep 9 2005, 11:36 PM) QUOTE (Zeaux @ Sep 8 2005, 07:31 AM) Why ask why? Just accept your fate on this earth, and move on. A vastly more important question: Why do men have nipples?Edit: I don't mean to be changing the topic, it's just that, to me, the thought of questioning my zoo is a total non-issue. I've long ago accepted it for myself. For me, the question was never why, but when. And the answer to that question is on the floor behind me, whining because I'm not looking at him. Why men have nipples Thank you Sno Abyss for that most illuminating website! Now I know!
nice post,i gess i learnd very young that when i felt bad all i had to do was go to the animals mostly my female boarder collie and they would do what ever it took to make me feel better ,,,,,,,,,/im not talkin sex here, im talkin feelings .they never put me down and were always happy to see me i grew up on a large farm i gess that started it ,my family treated me like crap so the animals was all i had .ladder in life she showd me how wonderful it could be to have sex with her when the love and feelings were there i still remember looking in her eyes and seeing the trust she gave to me.im not saying that a human female couldnt do that i just never looked to day i have three female german shepherds and an american eskimo female im active with the oldest and yougest and i couldnt be happyer so i have no reason to stray away nice post
I don't know what it was that made me feel the way I do about horses, but ever since I can remember, I've always felt a special connection to horses. Even before I knew what sex was, I longed for the presence of a horse in my life. When I first met a horse a very long time ago, I approached the horse, touched his nose, he nickered at me, and I felt a ripple of warmth and affection course through my body unlike anything I had ever known. From that day forward I was madly in love with horses, and desired more than anything to have them in my life. For some reason though, I thought this made me wierd in some way, so I never mentioned even liking horses until recently. My friends and family now know that I love horses, however they don't know the full extent of my love, nor is it likely that they ever will know.
As far back as I can remember, the closeness to animals have been something extremely important to me. I feel that I was born a zoophile, because the longing to be near animals was there long before I ever had the chance to, and the longing was very strong.It is strange, in a way, because I was afraid of animals, and drawn to them at the same time. So, even though I was around animals since I was newborn, and my entire family always helped a farmer with his hay and harvest every year, I was almost close to animals, but never quite.This farmer used to have a draft horse instead of a tractor, so I even learnt to 'drive' her, when standing on the hay-wagon. I remember I always enjoyed watching her, seeing her movements, finding her impressive. But I was terrified if I would stand beside her or in front of her.The same was with the cows. The farmer wanted to teach me how to milk, but I was afraid of being next to the cows. Still, I loved to watch them from a distance, and could stand for hours on the other side of the fence, and just observe them.When I grew older I eventually started going on the same side of the fence as the cows and horses, and I stopped being afraid of them. I could spend hours in their company, just watching them, being close to them, watching them calmly graze. I felt such a sensation of happiness and relaxation being beside them. The scent of their bodies made me feel good and warm, and I loved to feel their fur as I petted them.Once I had gotten old enough to be sexually mature, I was aroused by their presence, as well as having the general feeling of contentment and wellbeing.I started wondering if something was unusual with me, because I didn't notice my friends having the same kind of attraction towards animals. I did notice however that they were attracted by each other, so I tried to conjure up attraction towards the human girls who were my friends, and who I enjoyed being with. But I never managed to become attracted to humans, and to this day, I still have never managed, even though I've tried now and then. These days, I've only tried, to make friends happy, because there are friends that have been wanting to get intimate with me, and I have had to turn them down. I enjoy hugging my human friends, but I cannot bring myself to go further than that.So, my own personal reply to the question of "Why we are the way that we are." is that I am the way I am, because I was born this way. I feel it is genetic, in my case, and I cannot see how a different upbringing would have made me anything but zoo. I definately didn't have a choice, but I don't feel bad about being the one I am, even though it is definately not easy.I find Stripes' post from the 7th of September to be intresting, in the mentioning of pheromones. Not that I can remember any specific moment such as that, I know that the scent of animals are very important to me. I love just closing my eyes and pressing my face into the soft fur of a cow, and just breathe, taking in her scent, gently for each breath. It makes me feel so good.Also, I have to note, that I've only ever been close to cows who's been grazing fresh grass, or hay. None of those who get fed manufactured feed, which often contains things that make them smell strangely. Much like eating onions often makes a human's skin smell of onions, the manufactured feed tends to make cows smell in a way that to me is not very pleasant at all.But I won't feed cows anything that isn't natural.Also, to end this long ramble, I have to thank everyone who posted to this interesting thread. I find it a great enjoyment to read about your feelings, views and experiences. But especially a big thanks to Old Zoo for his outstanding, well-written posts. A lot of things to ponder.
In my point of view I prefer animal only because they are better in sex !Just look at the dick of a stallion ! It is so huge, so massive, so good !Just look at a dog's dick : this is huge, thick, wet, red, and they cum a lot and during 30 minutes. Moreover they have a knot ! And it seems like knot and G spot have beendesigned naturally by God to be complementary !
I too pondered this. I tend to lok at nature v/s nurture as more nature and nuture. it developes a being both. now the interesting thing found with homosexuals or transvestites is brain function and development. so indeed you can be born more to be like a gender reguardless of your actual gender.This as i have read from studies is because the "wireing" is reversed. a feminine homosexual male actually has the brain development of a woman. a lesbian actually has more male characteristics in their brain. the brain is what makes you up so thus and therefore by the brains development it would make your sexual preference.this may also be interlaced with population as well, but that is off subject.anyweg until the second trimester a human and a canine fetus are indesernable. each of us had paws a tail and a muzzle. instead of being born, humans developed more. so down the evolutionary scale your two billionth time great grandmother could have been a wolf.I am tying to be simple and to the point. knowing this, there may be part of the brain that by genetics has rewired the brain more to the bace attractions of long ago.i would love to get an MRI of my brain and that of a canine to see if indeed this is so just like the variations in homosexuals brains.The problem with zoophilia is it is a subject yet still too taboo for the scientific community to take intrest in, but homosexuality is no longer a taboo and so maybe in some places like holland or canada, someone may take up that question and answer it. but for now, it truly is anyones guess.of course you have to omit the free choice people. I for one never found human women really attractive. wolves foxes and DSHs were very attractive.so for me it am one of those born Zoophilic, where another may have chosen for convenianceInteresting but unaswerable in all but theory and speculation.
QUOTE (MrIronhead @ Aug 7 2005, 07:20 AM) This is a great question.Although I dont have an answer, I feel that these feelings have allways been a part of me. I have allways kept to myself and shyed awayfrom people all my life. I have allways had strong feelings, and devotion to animals way before I ever possesed sexual feelings for them.(female dogs)Im not sure if these sexaul feelings are somthing I was born with or somthingthat developed after a childhood of love and devotion to these animals.I have two female dogs now and love them more than anything else.They are my joy in life.We have a beuatiful emotional relationship, and a wonderful sexual relationship also.The reason I think the sex is so great is because they love it too.If they didnt like it then I wouldnt either, but I would stillhave the same feelings for them emotionally.This probably dont answer yourquestion but I thought I would share it with you anyway. Best wishes to you, and take care. "Jezz" I agree it just feels so right but to other others it seems sick. But in truth I have always wondered why.
Hi all,I can't really say waht turned me or why i'm a zoophile, but i am 100% female dog exclusive, i've felt that way ever since i can remember, i have always loved dogs. all i know is i can't even think anything else or any other way, not sure if it is genetic, but i do believe that it maybe, along with some different environments, but i think that while some are common, each person has thier own set of "switches" I can't realy pin point mine, maybe it was my hard life as a child, and when i got older and grew up it made a difference in my adult life, i'm sure it plays a part, but i think the main point is you, you have to be happy being who you are, if your happy that is what matters. I know for some it takes alot of time and suport to find themselves, and it is a long road. I know before i found this wonderful group, and the online comunity, i litterly thought that i was teh only one that felt this way, when i first got online and started finding others like me it was like a ton of bricks got lifted away. I think that is one thing that makes it easier now adays, is being able to find and reach out to many wondeful people out there with the same feelings, makes you realize you are not alone. but me, I'm 100% female dog exclusive, i know that, and most importantly i have accepted myself as such, i have a wonderful lover, whom is my soul mate, and i am very happy with who i am and ihave absolutly no desire to change the way i am, i'm me and if someone don't like it then i don't need them. That is the way i feel about it. Tundra
Like the other horse lovers here,I too was drawn to horses and have that connection with them. I'd rather be with a good mare or gelding than with a woman. I guess because the horse does not judge you,just loves you. This applies with k9's as well.I never been into the "social sceen"and never wanted it. In my view all that stuff is so superficial and never lasts,but with a good mare,she'll stay with you and not leave you.
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