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...people learn that sex with an animal does not necessarily mean abuse.Most people get really upset because they identify animal sex with animal abuse. This is really annoying. Of course abuse exist. But sick people rape human beings just like animals.
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I'm with you on that one. Closeminded people don't seem to understand that we can love our animals that completely and that we know when they do and don't want to have some fun. They are sexual beings just as we are, why shouldn't we share that to make our bond that much deeper.
I agree with you. People will never accept it unless they can understand it. It’s kind of sad really that more people don’t. By the way where did you find your avatar?
QUOTE (mostlyharmless @ May 23 2005, 05:34 AM) By the way where did you find your avatar? Unfortunately I can't remember. I lost the original pic .
I think it lays in our "civilised" society as they think that we are special an above the other animals. Also they seem to ALWAYS compare sex with animals with sex with human children and until we get away from that it will always remain taboo and not understood.So what is the differences? Well Animals do reach adulthood and has a sexuality which children don't. They will quite often also show their lust and in that case you can't claim cruelty to animals if THEY initiated. Like been said, It is true that there are those that abuse animals, but they don't like or appreciate animals in the same way. It cuold also be due to ignorance or lack of knowledge?As these humans excist, there are many more that do harm to other humans. Yet many will always see as bonding with animals means closing the gap or breaking the border between being human and being animal, and fur many that's hard to accept.Svadilfari
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I think the biggest obstacle to accepting zoophilia is not the species gap more than it is that people don't know how or if animals can even give full consent.That is where the animal rights activists say no to the act, they see that animals, like children, cant consent, which is where the whole comparison and the animal abuse issue came up. Also a lot of animals are trained to do things and animal rights activists always question whether or not this training masks consent or somehow influences what an animal chooses to do. (Ie, the animal doesnt know better etc. Like if you keep an animal in the house for 12 years, and then it gets out and into the yard, it doesnt know what to do, etc.)The line between human and animal is getting blurred more and more due to the protections placed on animals because people are realizing they cant do anything they want to animals. Unfortunately, this consent issue is seen as an abuse issue. So it is persecuted.Tangent: (Interestingly animals would never give their consent to get neutered if they knew what it was, but this is done because there is pet overpopulation rather than sterilizing, Also people dont want to deal with the behavioral problems associated with being intact, as the animal is more agressive, more needy or more territorial etc. If you get an animal, you should have to deal with it's "inconviences" so you can see the animal rights issue 'Overpopulation' and the animals are lower than humans issue 'convience' Of course it is healthier to have them neutered, but that is simply because, you can't get cancer in places that don't exist anymore, and they are less prone to fight to defend territory and mates.)Then you have they are lower than we are mentality. This is typically seen more for so called food animals. After all, how many people value a chicken the same as they value thier dog or dogs in general? Humans tend to think categorically and each item is given different value and qualities, well animals cant be in the same spot as humans, they think. (Some extremest animal rights activists value animals the same as they value their own lives, regardless of species, so you have the rat is as good as a child argument used against the philosphy, but even they tend to think zoophilia is an abuse, causeing harm to the animals they are out to protect.)So basically it is not only a species barrier, but a language barrier, which was the last line of reasoning I had against zoophilia despite my own desires, which snapped when I researched it from the zoo's point of view. Those who decide to put their personal prejudices aside and look at both sides will find that there is clearly consent between lovers, regardless of species.(of course in my google search it took a long time to find the sites worth visiting for anything other than porn )
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Actually, I doubt it has anything to do with commong sense and more to do with rejecting anything that's deviant. I don't believe that the majority of the people has ever given the subject much rational thought, it's just very different from what they're used to so they consider it wrong. People always have a tendency to reject those who are different: people from a different race, people with a different religion, people with a handicap, people with a different sexuality, people with a different culture, people with a different way of life, people with a different level of intelligence - in short, people that are different. This is probably due to conformism, and most people conform to the group they belong to. The collective identity they belong to has labelled sex with animals as wrong and the conformists follow mindlessly. This is what wikipedia has to say on conformism and to perhaps better illustrate what I'm trying to say:QUOTE Conformism is the suspension of one's powers of reason in favor of obedience to the mandates of one's peer group.One of its manifestations is the practice of going along and getting along with people who are more powerful, and may well be best expressed in the old saying, "When in Rome, do as the Romans do." Conformism assumes that the easiest and hence best life is attained by doing one's very best to blend in with one's surroundings, and to do nothing eccentric or out of the ordinary in any way.
Its just really human.What they dont know about they dont like and make it taboo.really sad actually , if they would do some effort to invest before judging, it would all be better.But thats life.
Hey all, just my feelings on this matter. If so many folks think its a consent issue I would love to talk to them about Vegetarianism. When did the animal give consent to be killed and eaten?
Follow that : http://www.firstlight.net/~chythar/manawolf/You may find what you're looking for. Check for On Zoolophilia, then the old version...MaFPAzOl © 2005
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QUOTE (wildelf59 @ May 30 2005, 05:08 AM) Hey all, just my feelings on this matter. If so many folks think its a consent issue I would love to talk to them about Vegetarianism. When did the animal give consent to be killed and eaten? welcome wildelf59! if you utilize your search engine you will see that there is already a quite heated topic on veg already... the forum takes a stance that it is inappropriate to flame others because they are not veg or veg... PROCEED WITH CAUTION. thank you!
Hey This was not a flame against Veg or not Veg, simply an observation about the argument on Zoo Vs. consent
I didn't say it was it's just a heads up -a lot of people get heated and carried away in controversial topics -which leads to ugliness -and often suspensions and bans -I saw that your a noob and wanted to make you aware -and my comment was also directed at everyone as a reminder not to let passion overtake calm and sensibility... and also to inform you that there is an existing thread....
To tell you the truth, Im sure no one will dis-agree with you. complaining does nothing in this place. If you realy want to try to change opinions on the matter, talk with people out side of beast forum about it. Might aswell through in my 2 cents. Humans, all humans (including you all, and myself) , are close minded. When humans see something that does not seem right to them they rebel and take offence. Humans will die before everyone is accepted for there unusual opinions.Edit: sorry for my bad spelling.
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QUOTE (Cetacean @ May 26 2005, 07:56 PM) Actually, I doubt it has anything to do with commong sense and more to do with rejecting anything that's deviant. I don't believe that the majority of the people has ever given the subject much rational thought, it's just very different from what they're used to so they consider it wrong. Bingo!What I've discovered through being in these forums is that you're absolutely right, and that people into zoo are, sadly, no different.This isn't meant to be a slam, just simply pointing out that this tendency to fear and stigmatize the different is a human tendency -- none of us is exempt. I think that we'd all like to believe that we reason first, and base our opinions off of that. However, I've noticed that the contrary is true; first we form an emotional reaction, and then we justify that opinion. We will go out of our way to disregard solid contradictory evidence or good opposing arguments, and instead tar and feather our opponents in an attempt to maintain our worldview at any cost.If you don't believe me, just look around -- in this forum, or out "in the world," and see for yourself. People *can* overcome this behavior, but not permanently -- in other words, I'm pretty sure this kind of prejudice is built in to our brains and has to be defeated on a case-by-case basis. And in general, people simply never stray out of their comfort zones. It's very, very rare to see someone seriously considering an idea that will challenge a fundamental belief that they adhere to.I find that it's useful to keep in mind just how irrational we humans are, when debating with same
Speaking as one who has been persecuted all his life for being different, I fully understand what it means to be thought of as sick and depraved for my bestial practices. What we need to realize that beastiality is the new "gay". Back in the earlier decades of this century, and all through out history, homosexuality, along with beastiality and other "unnatural" sexual practices have been labled as "taboo", "evil" and in some cases "heretical". Not until the late 60's/early 70's did we explore our sexuality more, hence the "Sexual Revolution". For example, the Kinsey Reports. Talking about them would take up too much time and space, but do a yahoo search on it and you'll find out what I mean. When those reports came out, we went through the usual motions. The bold and daring read it and mostly accepted it. The churches protested. And the public view did not change... until a little later. It was during this time that gay men and women of all shapes and sizes "came out of the clost". They openly lived their lives as homosexuals. There were the the usual acts of hate-crimes against these people. The usual slurs and stereotypes. And worst of all, these same ignorant people corrupting their children to think that "all fags wanna do is get in your pants". Thereby, creating a whole new generation of hate and misunderstanding. But, as the years have passed, being gay is almost accepted as normal these-days. But the remnants of the past still live on in view that beastiality is still wrong. Admittedly, there are some forms of sexual desire that are, in my own opinion, wrong as hell. Pedophilia and necrophilia for example. But I digress. As our openmindedness contiues to grow, one day, maybe soon, maybe much, much later, society will begin to view beastiality in a different light. And I don't want them to see it as something positive or negative, I merely want them to see it for what it is. We've made so many mistakes in the past, and done so much, and yet, so little to rectify them. We need to let our children read our sad and messy history by it's own light. To let them decide for themselves how to feel about it. But to do this, we need to plant the seeds of wisdom in them. Teach them not to judge until they've seen all they need to see. Most importantly, teach them to be open and understanding, regardless of circumstances. But before we can do this, we must first, ourselves, understand, and be open to these things. We need to sit down, and honest and truly ponder this one. IF you don't agree with me, fine. Criticize me all you want. But at least listen to what I've said before you pass you own judgement. Building the future, and keeping the past alive, are one in the same. May we teach our children the right lessons, the ones that count.
QUOTE (Solid Snake @ Jun 9 2005, 06:58 AM) 1- But, as the years have passed, being gay is almost accepted as normal these-days. But the remnants of the past still live on in view that beastiality is still wrong.2- As our openmindedness contiues to grow, one day, maybe soon, maybe much, much later, society will begin to view beastiality in a different light. And I don't want them to see it as something positive or negative, I merely want them to see it for what it is. 1- Sexual tolerance seems to go backward these days, all around the world, not only in US...2- They better have to see it in a positive light, otherwise it will be forbiden, pure and simple :/ See for "what it is" ? People's view on animal already differs on the ground of 'utility' of animals. Don't expect everybody to agree on the possible love between humans and animals...Nice output indeed MaFPAzOl © 2005
it will cease to be taboo when organized religion (atleast the modern versions of it) come to an end. that's largely the thing that puts it into illegal/gray area to start with.
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QUOTE (MaFPAzOl @ Jun 9 2005, 07:10 AM) 1- Sexual tolerance seems to go backward these days, all around the world, not only in US... sadly, that is all too true. too damn many bible thumpers where i live. people who won't take "i don't belive your religion, now go away unless you want to talk to me rather than at me" as an answer. i belive there is something on a higher level. there pretty much has to be. you can trace things scientificly back to the big bang, but where did all that matter come from to start with? there had to be somekind of intervention at that point, but from there, it would be pretty much that we're the result of completely random chance.srry if i'm getting a few miles off topic here.
QUOTE (chafalcar @ Jun 15 2005, 05:21 AM) QUOTE sorry if i'm getting a few miles off topic here. No, you just hit the nail on the head. Law says it's immoral and wrong. And what had always influenced laws the most? Religion. Why? Because God said so, when it probably wasn't God, but some chucklehead who thought it was gross, didn't like it, and had a say in what was written in the bible. Some guy who thought his way was the only way, and therefore, all others should accept it as plain truth, or burn in hell. But now I'm getting off topic! lol Simply put, religion says it's wrong, and since so many in the country are religious, well... it kinda speaks for itself. Thankfully, we are seeing many more people, one of which I saw elsewhere, who was a devout Christian, and practises beastiality. Slowly, but surely, it's becoming more accepted. Let us hope it continues this way, fopr all our sakes.
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There are a lot of taboos, however, and each persecuted group tends to think that it's the only game in town. So often you'll find blacks frame everything in racism, homosexuals think everyone's homophobic, and zoophiles think that beastiality is "the last great taboo."There are dozens of "last great taboos," and depending upon who you ask, beastiality ranges from not a big deal, just slightly gross (as some I've spoken with have felt), all the way to The Worst Sin Imaginable.I'm a member of a couple of categories that are highly shunned (zoophiles, atheists), and a couple of categories that are supposed to be the Great Oppressors: white, male, fairly materially well off. So I can't figure out if I'm the victim or the oppressor.Or maybe those old labels just don't make sense anymore and we need to start looking at people on a case-by-case basis instead of taking the lazy way out and mentally pigeonholing people into stereotypes that we won't let them escape from.[EDIT: why is g-r-o-u-p SPAM??]
I remember when not so long ago I found site with article about bestiality in Sweden, where it is legal. They described it as a problem, since there are (according to arcticle) many cases of animal abusing in that country and authorities can do nothing with them. As you can guess, in their eyes every case of bestiality = animal abusing. They reported that most often abused animals are horses. So they know the equines are one of the most prefered by us, but how can they equalize sexual affection to horse with abusing it? They haven't even heard about happy zoo couples like Tschoni and Jasou or Sleipnir and Elska, or (sniff) Hetman and Kora. But what makes me see red most, is that it's SO easy to understand bestiality doesn't harm animal - there are only few things to understand:1. Animal is not a child - animals like we also make sex and enjoy it - so zoophilia cannot be confused with pedophilia, where sexual interest is directed at sexually immature units.2. Animal cannot talk, but that doesn't mean it cannot consent - in nature, male always knows when female allows (raised tail means nothing but "go on"), the trick is to know when female allows.3. If animal didn't want to have a sex, it'd be easy to notice it - animal wouldn't just let us penetrate it, it'd try to walk away, or would show fear etc. - so the theory that "we can never be sure if animal wants it" is just load of crap to me.4. If animal didn't want to have a sex with us and we still kept trying, it could show us its refuse with fangs or claws or hooves - animal are less defenceless than many women.5. To have a sex with animal you have to become an animal too, there is no domination over it. If you want to mount a mare, you have to show her first that you are just specific kind of stallion, you've got two legs but you can give her pleasure like stallion does. To good beast sex ALWAYS is required full equality between man and animal.6. We cannot judge animal mating by our human sexual standards, like saying animal "is not aware" etc. - for animal sex is just a sex, it wants it so it has it, and then as long as sex with human seems ok for animal (see above), it doesn't matter it's not aware of sexual values created by humans.7. And what's the most important: you DON'T HAVE to force animal! People think animal would never want to have a sex with human as that's not its species, and thus if man wants sex with animal, must use rape. But the truth every of us knows is that when you are animal even other species is acceptable as a sex partner if it behaves like your species. It doesn't matter for bitch whether she's mounted by dog or fingered by master - the important is to satisfy her WELL.I think this is it. Only seven points to understand and things are clear, even for child. But unfortunately even the best argument means nothing when people are highly convinced that they know better.
Horse with name, I wholeheartedly agree with your arguments.There was a case I followed where a man was caught copulating with a mare. He was sentenced because of animal abuse or animal torture.Seriously, it's a strange kind of torture. I'm sure if that mare didn't like it, she would have kicked or something.If I consider how bad some people treat animals. Pig masting facilities or egg facilities. That's more like abuse and torture, but it's legal. Or at least the authorities don't do anything against it.
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QUOTE (Solid Snake @ Jun 9 2005, 05:58 AM) Speaking as one who has been persecuted all his life for being different, I fully understand what it means to be thought of as sick and depraved for my bestial practices. What we need to realize that beastiality is the new "gay". Back in the earlier decades of this century, and all through out history, homosexuality, along with beastiality and other "unnatural" sexual practices have been labled as "taboo", "evil" and in some cases "heretical". Not until the late 60's/early 70's did we explore our sexuality more, hence the "Sexual Revolution". For example, the Kinsey Reports. Talking about them would take up too much time and space, but do a yahoo search on it and you'll find out what I mean. When those reports came out, we went through the usual motions. The bold and daring read it and mostly accepted it. The churches protested. And the public view did not change... until a little later. It was during this time that gay men and women of all shapes and sizes "came out of the clost". They openly lived their lives as homosexuals. There were the the usual acts of hate-crimes against these people. The usual slurs and stereotypes. And worst of all, these same ignorant people corrupting their children to think that "all fags wanna do is get in your pants". Thereby, creating a whole new generation of hate and misunderstanding. But, as the years have passed, being gay is almost accepted as normal these-days. But the remnants of the past still live on in view that beastiality is still wrong. Admittedly, there are some forms of sexual desire that are, in my own opinion, wrong as hell. Pedophilia and necrophilia for example. But I digress. As our openmindedness contiues to grow, one day, maybe soon, maybe much, much later, society will begin to view beastiality in a different light. And I don't want them to see it as something positive or negative, I merely want them to see it for what it is. We've made so many mistakes in the past, and done so much, and yet, so little to rectify them. We need to let our children read our sad and messy history by it's own light. To let them decide for themselves how to feel about it. But to do this, we need to plant the seeds of wisdom in them. Teach them not to judge until they've seen all they need to see. Most importantly, teach them to be open and understanding, regardless of circumstances. But before we can do this, we must first, ourselves, understand, and be open to these things. We need to sit down, and honest and truly ponder this one. IF you don't agree with me, fine. Criticize me all you want. But at least listen to what I've said before you pass you own judgement. Building the future, and keeping the past alive, are one in the same. May we teach our children the right lessons, the ones that count. it's very interesting, as a gay man, to read this thread. I think you answer your own questions just by the nature of your question itself. There is still a huge stigma associated with being gay, thus your using it to compare to another stimatized lifestyle... and hiv was immediately associated back to gays too -if it is sooo popular to be gay -why is it that whenever a contraversial human rights question arises it immediately reverts back to gays??? once out of the woods, it seems the world forgets the struggle - stonewall became infamous (btw -it was NYC not SanFran) because it was a slaughter -we were beaten stoned and even killed -these men (and women) were the epitomy of courage -they took a stance and fought to the death -them against the world -but don't ever forget my friends -you don't get a medal for saving your own ass -you just get to see another day... the struggle was survival -not acceptance. and that applies to hiv too. We watched our best friends die -and we watched our new best friends die too -and then again! and again! and again and again!@#! I'm not so sure you can realize the struggle we have endured -in fact I am certain that you can not -you have zero idea what we have endured -it's sometimes still even inconcievable to ourselves -and then there was the salt in the open wounds -before we could finish grieving we became the scapegoats -I can assure you that it was not fashionable to be gay in the 80's -or even know a gay man -it was like leoparsy -it's so easy to kick a man when he is down... and once again we endured -the gay man is now the lowest hiv contracting minority in the world -but I am here to remind you of the cost...-as of yet there are few witch hunts for zoos as it remains predominately behind closed doors -and so I ask you -are you sure you want to open those doors? are your willing to sustain the casulaties of war? edit* the above was a quote from myself -it didn't come out looking like that because i copied and pasted -it's from the thread I added a link to below... *end editthis all sounds too familiar -you can see the entire thread here
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When I first learnt about Beastiality I thought it was wrong, as I was brought up in a society where anything such as Beastiality, Necrophilia and Paedophilia are deemed morally wrong and therefore illegal. However I came to realise that Beastiality is big part of some peoples lives. And as has been said earlierit's in our nature. We are just as much an animal as a dog or a horse or any other species. The oly difference is that we are more developed. We have a higher IQ level, higher level of commincation etc. But as a person, we are just an animal with an ability to speak rather than just bark or baa. We all have an animalistic side. Cavemen, for example, are exactly how we would be now if we had no technology, no developed commincation. Nothing has really changed apart from the times. One thing that certainly does make as as much as an animal as say one you'd find on a farm or in the wild is the natural instinct to have sex. Through this I realised that Beastiality isn't really wrong. Yes it's very different and slightly more primative but at the end of the day sex is natural whether it's between humans or animals. This also makes it really daft when authorities try to say it's abuse. If it was abuse then the animal would be clearly in distress or would suffer evident physical harm. Out of the three "taboo" topics I named earlier I feel that Paedophilia and Necrophilia are still morally wrong because it's is obvious. Sex with an underage person is abusive and physically wrong due to the bodies develope etc. And Necrophilia is wrong because, again, it is a very disgusting thing to do and can be very dangerous to health too.But however, Beastiality should be legallised more around the world as there really is nothing hugelly "wrong" about it. If Holland and Brazil (as far as I'm aware) can have it legal then why can't other countries accept that maybe it's not really that unacceptable? It's nature at it's simplist form.
QUOTE (AlphaDhole @ May 26 2005, 07:04 AM) I think the biggest obstacle to accepting zoophilia is not the species gap more than it is that people don't know how or if animals can even give full consent.That is where the animal rights activists say no to the act, they see that animals, like children, cant consent, which is where the whole comparison and the animal abuse issue came up. Also a lot of animals are trained to do things and animal rights activists always question whether or not this training masks consent or somehow influences what an animal chooses to do. (Ie, the animal doesnt know better etc. Like if you keep an animal in the house for 12 years, and then it gets out and into the yard, it doesnt know what to do, etc.)The line between human and animal is getting blurred more and more due to the protections placed on animals because people are realizing they cant do anything they want to animals. Unfortunately, this consent issue is seen as an abuse issue. So it is persecuted.Tangent: (Interestingly animals would never give their consent to get neutered if they knew what it was, but this is done because there is pet overpopulation rather than sterilizing, Also people dont want to deal with the behavioral problems associated with being intact, as the animal is more agressive, more needy or more territorial etc. If you get an animal, you should have to deal with it's "inconviences" so you can see the animal rights issue 'Overpopulation' and the animals are lower than humans issue 'convience' Of course it is healthier to have them neutered, but that is simply because, you can't get cancer in places that don't exist anymore, and they are less prone to fight to defend territory and mates.)Then you have they are lower than we are mentality. This is typically seen more for so called food animals. After all, how many people value a chicken the same as they value thier dog or dogs in general? Humans tend to think categorically and each item is given different value and qualities, well animals cant be in the same spot as humans, they think. (Some extremest animal rights activists value animals the same as they value their own lives, regardless of species, so you have the rat is as good as a child argument used against the philosphy, but even they tend to think zoophilia is an abuse, causeing harm to the animals they are out to protect.)So basically it is not only a species barrier, but a language barrier, which was the last line of reasoning I had against zoophilia despite my own desires, which snapped when I researched it from the zoo's point of view. Those who decide to put their personal prejudices aside and look at both sides will find that there is clearly consent between lovers, regardless of species.(of course in my google search it took a long time to find the sites worth visiting for anything other than porn ) wow that was very well written and insightful
QUOTE (Irolan @ Jun 17 2005, 05:23 AM) Horse with name, I wholeheartedly agree with your arguments.There was a case I followed where a man was caught copulating with a mare. He was sentenced because of animal abuse or animal torture.Seriously, it's a strange kind of torture. I'm sure if that mare didn't like it, she would have kicked or something.If I consider how bad some people treat animals. Pig masting facilities or egg facilities. That's more like abuse and torture, but it's legal. Or at least the authorities don't do anything against it. Thanx. There's also another example of people's hyporcisy about "abuse" of animals which annoys me. People keep animals in their houses, thus forcing them to live in unwanted celibacy without natural contacts with opposite sex, which must be terrible to animal, but this is not torture. Yet when zoo copulates with his bitch, providing her regular contacts with male, this is torturing. Dogs hump their master's legs just because they have no bitches and can't stand it, but owner doesn't car about that, just yells at poor dog. But that's alright. And I agree about that mare - is that so hard for some people to understand how strong is typical mare and that if man doesn't get killed it means that mare allows after all?PS. Cute avatar
I think tolerance toward zoophilia/bestiality will get worse before it gets better. The more non-zoos hear about it, the more they will be motivated to act against it. Look at what happened to that guy in Missouri who went on the Jerry Springer show with his pony, Pixel. I heard that Missouri outlawed bestiality because of him.I'm not against zoophilia being accepted. I just think this is what will happen.
You're right, Shadowfax, but I'm sure that this part of coming out when masses get more hating us is unavoidable and we must pass through it. It's like getting rid of decaying tooth or escaping from burning house through wall of fire around exit - if we want to free ourselves from some tormenting pain, it must get bigger a bit before it starts disappearing. If we start showing ourselves to wider society we will get hated by many people, but if we don't, we can live hidden for many years. You know, gays in Poland are still not accepted by many people (sad thing to say) and they have to show them they exist, but when they make a public parade, they get hit with rocks or eggs (THIS IS TRUE!!!) but they don't give up, and there are already good results - homosexuality becomes more known topic in Poland and people are starting to debate about it. It has made some people more understanding homosexual minority, and it wouldn't have happened if they hadn't tried to fight for their right. If we want to become accepted, first we must endure some hostility from people but it's necessary to make them understanding us one day.
QUOTE (southflorida @ Jun 17 2005, 07:21 AM) QUOTE (southflorida @ Jun 17 2005, 07:21 AM)-as of yet there are few witch hunts for zoos as it remains predominately behind closed doors -and so I ask you -are you sure you want to open those doors? are your willing to sustain the casulaties of war? Yes, although I cannot speak for everyone, we do need to stand up and tell the world what we do, but more importantly, we need to tell them who we are. Yes, it'll be very bad in the beginning, there will be protests, paranoia, pet neutering will probably become much more commonplace (if not to keep population down but to prevent people from havng sex with animals), and make no mistake, there will be lynchings and vigilante "justice", mark my words. But we cannot keep "living in the kennel" forever. Eventually, we will have to come out. Now, is probably not the best time to do so, but we need to prepare ourselves for the hardships we would endure. We're already outcasts. The world just doesn't know it yet. When they do realize it, we will be persecuted by everyone, and as usual, the goons up on the hill will make all kinds of anti-beastiality laws to appease the masses, even though, and I guarantee, there is at least one zoophile who holds a prominent political office. We would recieve dirty looks from the people that know, and our families would more'n likely shun us. But we'll all have to deal with this at some point. Look at what all these others have gone through. Blacks had to fight for 200+ years to achieve basic human rights, let alone social acceptance. The point is, we all need to realize that we'll eventually, as a group, come out into the light. It may be next week, or it may not happen in our lifetime. So to answer your question, others may not be prepared, but I sure as hell am. I full well know the risks I'm taking, and I am fully prepared to deal with the consequences of my actions. Now, I'm not trying to provoke some large-scale crap like a a protest or even (godforbid) some kind of march on Washington... This is not a call to arms. This is a call to wake-up and smell the kibble.
I know beforehand that what I'm about to say may offend some people but i wish to give my opinion about this: If necessary, I am prepared to defend my beliefs to the death with violence, if violence cannot be avoided, however, I am also willing to temper any conflicts that may arise, if possible. Nevertheless, I would never abandon my beliefs, no matter what.
I think it will be a taboo until the general belief is that sex is not as big a deal as they have been making it out to be for so long. That includes with humans. It's only sex ! People are animals, too, and that belief itself still isn't popular.
...the aliens return to earth in 2010. OOooor until a giant asteroid smashes into the earth destroying all life in 2012 according to the Mayan calendar.
The problem is that an animal cannot say "hey I like this". So people are interpreting the reaction of an animal like they see it. There was an animal behavior scientist who stated that dogs don't feel anything like joy during sex and that the whole thing is only an instinct driven issue. And hence anti-zoos like to quote her statements when it comes to beastiality..
I know this is an old topic, but I didn't read anyone mention: taxes. If the government could collect a sizable amount of taxes on the life style then it would be more accepted.Have you ever tried taking your dog to dinner and a movie? Where can the government make any money on that? Sure you can go camping with your dog, take walks, play ball (maybe I should use the word fetch?) but that is cheap. Even the best can of gourmet dog food is less then a steak dinner at a 'fair' resterant.Make it profitable for the government, and the road blocks will be removed.Look at how much money they make on war. Make that kind of money on zoos and they might bring back the draft for the life style.
To prove a small point some people can not and never will understand the relationship between humans and animals. After reading the above posts I was reminded of an incident that happened on a school excursion to a local dairy farm. The class walked into the barn while the local vet had his arm up to the shoulder inside the rear of a cow, The female teacher screamed at the vet and called him some very unfaltering names. Then she told the children to leave and said she was going to report the farmer and vet to the police. ( Mind you some of those children were raised on dairy farms and they thought her reaction was quite amusing) From what I can remember she was transferred before the end of the month. I was told latter that she did rush back and report the farmer and vet to the local constable, and he almost laughed in her face. ( City people don't have a clue about life on the farm.)
^wow, if they can't even understand something as simple as palpation, how are they ever going to understand anything else?
QUOTE (Svadilfari @ May 26 2005, 04:47 AM) I think it lays in our "civilised" society as they think that we are special an above the other animals. Also they seem to ALWAYS compare sex with animals with sex with human children and until we get away from that it will always remain taboo and not understood.So what is the differences? Well Animals do reach adulthood and has a sexuality which children don't. They will quite often also show their lust and in that case you can't claim cruelty to animals if THEY initiated. Like been said, It is true that there are those that abuse animals, but they don't like or appreciate animals in the same way. It cuold also be due to ignorance or lack of knowledge?As these humans excist, there are many more that do harm to other humans. Yet many will always see as bonding with animals means closing the gap or breaking the border between being human and being animal, and fur many that's hard to accept.Svadilfari I agree. I find it boggling that we "believe" that we evolved from animals but we cant have sex with them. whats the big deal. I mean do we HONESTLY think Adam and EVE didnt get giggy with the animals back in the garden of eden COME ONI mean when we try to talk about this people give us that EWWW look like we just farted or something
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QUOTE (missywolf @ Mar 20 2008, 07:45 PM) ^wow, if they can't even understand something as simple as palpation, how are they ever going to understand anything else? I agree. I've checked cows during pregnancy myself the same way, I can't imagine someone reporting another for something so necessary and normal on a farm
QUOTE (xxxlola @ May 29 2005, 10:22 AM) Its just really human.What they dont know about they dont like and make it taboo.really sad actually , if they would do some effort to invest before judging, it would all be better.But thats life. Correct. That's life and I think that we have to just accept it and hope that it's get better at least.
My hope is that zoo will be mainstream at some point in my life but I have very serious doubts about that happening
This thread is full of hopes and dreams, and its kinda depressing... But some of the things people have said does give me some honest hope.Just think, a lot of the stuff that was 'Taboo' a century ago (and less) isn't taboo now.I can imagine we WILL see a change in our lifetime, however small it may be.
Beast sex is but one aspect of lifestyle/sexuality choices that will always be considered taboo.I don't mean to come across as the pessimist here, but the reality is that people who are not involved/interested in this lifestyle will never accept it, nor understand it.It would be easy to be angry at those who persecute us for the way we live, but I am not angry at them. I pity them. We experience things they could never even imagine...because they won't open their minds and allow themselves to. So I say let them miss out. Let "non-traditional" ways of life continue to be taboo. It only makes our way(s) of life more meaningful and special, and theirs more mundane and shallow.
I think that sooner or later it will just...stop being so shocking for people. Think of it...once upon a time, people couldn't marry outside their race. Or be with someone of the same gender. It might not be soon, but I'm pretty sure that eventually people will just sort of roll their eyes and walk away from a zoo couple, just like they do everyone else.
QUOTE I don't mean to come across as the pessimist here, but the reality is that people who are not involved/interested in this lifestyle will never accept it, nor understand it.That makes a good point, but that's not just speaking from a Zoophile point-of-view either. That could be applied to any sexual orientation.All 'non-mainstream' sexual orientations are 'taboo', but on varying levels from varying people. I think what we'd like is for us to at least not be seen as demon-seed or rapists/abusers/devils/etc...Just like s were hardly a century ago.
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Does anybody have RECENT, RELIABLE numbers as to how many people are into bestiality/zoo or how many have committed a sexual act with an animal?What I have heard is it is actually more common that people think.Also, when looking at past trends, I think it is completely understandable if later in my lifetime - decades from now - it becomes somewhat acceptable.As a society, we all are moving forward. Anal sex has replaced oral sex as the main taboo nowadays and only a hundred years or so masturbation was seen as completely evil. Pre-marital sex is becoming more prevalent, and the list goes on.Who is to say that it won't become accepted a little in years to come?
I find it sad as well, thankfully I've gotten quite a few people to understand it better, and I hope to keep doing the same.
I've said it before, a government can't collect as much in taxes from zoophiles. As such the government will never be for it, and if you want to produce an army then a stedy supply of children is a must.
Sorry, but beast sex will always be taboo, always. It always has been, and always will be. No society in history has ever "openly" practiced zoophilia. It has always been a rare practice done behind closed doors and away from general view.
Skyrune made a very good point. They are never going to accept it because they don't understand. However, those who have stated that, sexually, society is advancing. QUOTE Anal sex has replaced oral sex as the main taboo nowadays and only a hundred years or so masturbation was seen as completely evil. Pre-marital sex is becoming more prevalent, and the list goes on.andQUOTE I think that sooner or later it will just...stop being so shocking for people.Think of it...once upon a time, people couldn't marry outside their race. Or be with someone of the same gender.It might not be soon, but I'm pretty sure that eventually people will just sort of roll their eyes and walk away from a zoo couple, just like they do everyone else. and anal is not really so "taboo" anymore.The only people who still have a problem with masturbation, oral sex and premarital sex are those that are too close-minded because their life revolves around a book.
People people people! beastiality was once excepted and revered and is still tolerated in non christian societys. it is the same kind of religious zelotry that persecutes the s sodomy is against the law in every state i think but sex with animals isnt most states dont have animal sex laws and only can charge you with abuse. we claim to be an enlightened society but we are not. and untill the plague wipes them out there will always be those who persecute what they dont understand.
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QUOTE (silkythighs @ Aug 4 2008, 07:29 AM) Sorry, but beast sex will always be taboo, always. It always has been, and always will be. No society in history has ever "openly" practiced zoophilia. It has always been a rare practice done behind closed doors and away from general view. Never openly practiced it, no. Respected it more than society does today? Yes. See below, and check out the Wikipedia link to Zoophilia in my signature and look at some of the artwork in that article.QUOTE People people people! beastiality was once excepted and revered and is still tolerated in non christian societys. it is the same kind of religious zelotry that persecutes the wrist.gifs sodomy is against the law in every state i think but sex with animals isnt most states dont have animal sex laws and only can charge you with abuse. we claim to be an enlightened society but we are not. and untill the plague wipes them out there will always be those who persecute what they dont understand.I think they said it well.
QUOTE (FurryOne2 @ Aug 5 2008, 11:53 PM) People people people! beastiality was once excepted and revered and is still tolerated in non christian societys. it is the same kind of religious zelotry that persecutes the s sodomy is against the law in every state i think but sex with animals isnt most states dont have animal sex laws and only can charge you with abuse. we claim to be an enlightened society but we are not. and untill the plague wipes them out there will always be those who persecute what they dont understand. the laws vary from state to state. many states dropped their old sodomy laws, which included sex with animals and with people of the same sex. A few still have the same old strict laws (Oklahoma for one, where it is a felony). California dropped theirs, but have sex with animals as a misdemeanor. NY dropped theoirs, not sure if they have any minor laws regaring it, other than maybe indecent exposure and such. Texas has no law against it, but does have a law making it illegal to expose ones genitals or anus. A few states have made new laws for various reasons. these include Missouri, Washington and Arizona. Trying to force our ways on John Q Narrowmindgoesbytheoldbook only causes new laws to be created. Missouri because of a few buttwipes that made their doings too public, and Washington becaue, in major part, a person died due to a ruptured intestine due to getting bred by a horse. One can do a web search for sodomy or bestiality laws. may not always be up to date. Still best to avoid the public eye regarding zoo sex. yes, some societies did have sex with animals as a part of their rites, usually fertility rites. Others were just plain into almost everything, like the Romans at a part of their history. religions have varied widely in their attitude topwards sex. And depending on souces, one may find far more variance in a religion than is generally preached nowadays. So, one needs to research before making a blanket statement regarding sodomy and other laws. Laws can and do change.
Beast will ALWAYS be considered taboo, sorry. Look at anal, though more and more people are doing it these days, it is still considered pretty taboo to most. I even know of people who consider oral sex taboo. There are still women, and men(mainly considering women due to my own sexual orientation but obviously can go for males), in this world who wont consider giving a man a blowjob, or a man wont do oral on a woman.. I don't really expect beast to be removed from the taboo list.
Obviously zoophilia has always been part of every society. Nobody is suggesting it doesn't occur. However no society has ever championed it or even publicly tolerated it. Obscure religious practices and myths aside.Perhaps, ancient Roman aristocrats put on beasty shows for their personal entertainment. However that doesn't mean it was an acceptable practice even in ancient roman society. Also Rome was a male dominated society. women had virtually no rights in the home. I doubt many roman husbands would accept their wives humping fido while he was at work. Could get herself killed.
^ Agree again.Time may move on, and civilized societies may progress, but there are just some things that, as a whole, will not be accepted. It's nice to think that it would be, but...realistically, it's just wishful thinking.Keep the doors locked and the curtains drawn while you have your fun, friends...the outside world simply doesn't posses the depth of understanding needed to view this lifestyle practice as acceptable. It will always be taboo. The "hows" and "whys" are irrelevant.
I've been thinking about this one for a while, and it seems like if it becomes more popular and more common, it might get to the point of getting more acceptance, but not acceptance by all.What drives me to believe this is just look at the practice of anal sex say...50 years ago compared to today. Back then, it was very degrading, basically nobody talked about it, the actual occurrence was pretty rare (sorry, don't have statistical figures) in the grand scheme of things.Look at today though. Lots of people do it, it happens all the time, it is I guess for the most part accepted. There's still a significant number that either just absolutely will not participate in it, nor condone the act, but there is an overwhelming number of people who are the opposite, and there's of course a bunch in the middle between both camps.So just seeing how that evolved in 50 years, I would say beast could follow a similar pattern, albeit not with the same proportionate result. The "for it" camp won't be nearly as large, but it will still be a significant size. I think the "middle ground" camp will take up the slack though.There will be a large number of people who wouldn't participate themselves, but won't look down on those who would. In the end, the "against it" camp will very likely be the same camp that is against anal sex, but they will have a few new members in the group, as well.Perhaps more documentaries like Coming Soon could help, but I think the important obstacle in overcoming the taboo part of beast would be to try to convince others that it is not abuse. I know I can't speak for everyone, but of course there are always going to be some rare cases where it really is abuse, but the majority of the time is not.I don't know, that's just how I see it, I could be wrong, or I could be on the verge of a breakthrough. Who knows at this time. Only the future will tell the outcome.
In my opinion, the greatest obsicle that stands in the way of zoophilia becoming more widely accepted by society in general is the commercial porn industry. Watching "dilldoging" sessions and passionless pulling on a tranquilized horses dong are outrageous abuses and insulting to those people that truely love animals.There are many people, probably men more than women, that become curious at some point and thereby check out some zoo porn; If all these people see are sickening examples of abuse, then more than likely their curious escapade into zoophilia will end with negative feelings.I am not saying that commercial porn as it exists is by any means the only thing keeping us away from more favorable acceptance, but it sure might help if more people could see the passion and understand the joy that we share with our animals.There is a lot of very good discussion on this thread. After reading and thinking about what all has been said, I believe that it would probably be wise to keep a low profile and live life the best that we can - thereby leading through example. If someone were to discover the zoo aspect of your life, it would be best if that person could find no other fault in your charcter and actions.
QUOTE (monte overman @ Aug 17 2008, 10:00 AM) In my opinion, the greatest obsicle that stands in the way of zoophilia becoming more widely accepted by society in general is the commercial porn industry. Watching "dilldoging" sessions and passionless pulling on a tranquilized horses dong are outrageous abuses and insulting to those people that truely love animals. Oh so true if you bent me that way when i was excited id scream. who wants to see flacid penises on horses lets see some raging hard ons. so much out there is cheap and fake and it gives us a bad name. very well said my friend
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