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I've read this before....Animals cannot consent to being sexual partners to us so its wrong. Well, quite frankly this is the most hypocritical statement I've ever heard. First off wether or not animals can consent or not is a load of manure. All domesticated animals are just that: "domesticated" Their behaviors have been shaped and molded by human intravention for thousands of years. Wether we like it or not domesticated animals have only real one pourpose in life: To serve man. We use domesticated animals to serve us. We use them for transportation ( well, not so much anymore. But you get my meaning) We use them for hunting, for food, recreation and to cloth our bodies, among other things and to us companionship. I laugh at the fools who tell me that my horses cannot consent to me having sex at them as they stand there wearing LEATHER shoes, belts and clothes. I'm sure the cow consented to using their hide to cloth them. I'm sure the animal consented to being butchred, cut up and made into soup, hamburgers, etc. I sure the animal consented to being ridden, made to preform stupid tricks or made to run around in circles till they can't run anymore. I'm sure the animal consented to being used in horrible lab experiments, I'm sure the animal consented to being trapped and killed for their fur. See, when a person says that an animal cannot consent to sexual contact from a human. Well, thats the most hypocritical thing I have ever heard. Second, I personally don't care if the animal can consent or not. If I am going to be fool enough to put myself in the position that leaves me open to being kicked, bit or trampled. Well quite frankly I DESERVED IT! Finally, I am very good to all my horses, I give them plenty to eat, I groom them, shelter them and treat them when they are sick or injured. I do alot more for my horses than most of the fools who own their own horses say that I abuse them because I have sex with them. Well, enough said Just though I would state my opinion.
WOW A non consenting animal will definatly let you know it aint gonna take any from you!!! However I dont look at my animals as a pair of shoe and a coat and force myself on them! I take better care of my animal lovers than most people take care of themselves........
Wasnt suggesting that I look at them as a pair of shoes or a belt and force myself on them. I care deeply for my horses. I was just using that as a example of how silly the idea that an animal cannot consent yet we never ask the animal for consent when whe use them for "other" uses.
I agree very much with you Hozzman. The whole consent question is gray. I know all my many dogs, (god bless them, they live about 14 years) my male dogs, they more then consented, they may have "learned" to like to mount me, but they learned real fast. Many dogs have "asked" me to let them mount. I was the one to consent. LOL I consider my dogs people. Dogs are people too, in their blissful dog mind world. All my dogs are loved as friends, companions, buddies, lovers. I get sick if I watch Animal Planet pet cop shows. The way some animals are treated........The Human Animals can be very sick sometimes.anyway, just my two cents Does anyone beside me know of the 1975 movie " A Boy and His Dog" ? awesome movie, i just got the dvd.woof woofYknot
If my girls don't want sex, they let me know, and I would never force myself on them. I always start with oral. When they are in the mood for having their pussies eaten, they never turn me down. I consider that giving their consent.
I think that one reason this is avoided is because it begs a deeper question:How can you know -- truly know -- that ANYONE consents?I don't think I can mention the word that sounds like "grape" but is about forced sex. Think about it and you'll know what I mean.Well, in those sorts of trials today, it's not unheard of for a woman to say that she may have said "yes" at the time, but she felt pressured or threatened, or whatever. Barring the use of physical violence, then, how can a man ever be SURE? How can I KNOW that the woman who's consenting to sex with me isn't "just saying that" because she's scared of me or so insecure that she thinks I'll leave her if she says no?Incidentally, this post isn't about women-bashing -- it's just that in sex, men are historically the aggressors and women the receivers. But sometimes even that age-old equation doesn't hold true.So if we can't, according to the courts, ever be SURE that HUMANS can consent, how in G*d's name can we know if a nonhuman animal can consent? How can we EVER be sure?Answer: we can't. That's the answer that people don't like, which is, I think, why people don't usually ask the question. If a verbal assent to sex is required, then mutes are unable to have sex. Is it legal for a mentally deficient (aka retarded) adult to have sex? We don't like to think about it, but a friend of mine who cared for special-needs adults told me loud and clear that these folks are just as sexual as you and I, but they can't express their needs as clearly (and, yes, they're much more prone to being taken advantage of). So where do we draw the line? Nobody knows. That's why people avoid this topic like the plague.I think that in the end, use your damned common sense, people. If a dog is mounting you, that's consent from a male. If a female dog is pushing up against you and displaying her genitals to you and doesn't pull away if you proceed, that's consent. Yes, you may start something and then the animal cries or whines, and then you should probably stop. But use your common sense...The real bottom line with animals is that if they truly don't want what's happening to them, they have ways (claws, fangs) of making that fact *painfully* clear to us.
QUOTE (madformares @ Mar 2 2005, 03:52 AM) If my girls don't want sex, they let me know, and I would never force myself on them. I always start with oral. When they are in the mood for having their pussies eaten, they never turn me down. I consider that giving their consent. Quite same here as madformares, my girls let me know what they wantand what they don't want.I also like suck & lick their teats, if my girl don't like it at the moment,she nudge me gently with hind leg to my side.And if she like it, she takes wide standing position to let me reach better.So my answer for question is yes, animal can consent.
People are often sure the animal can never ever tell you it consent, because they think since animal can't talk, it has no way to show you its willingness. Moreover, what they think about sex with animals is that human starts penetrating goat/mare/bitch/sheep/whale and animal doesn't react at all, though in its head it cries from pain and helplessness - I'm sure they cannot perceive that animals have claws, teeth, horns, hooves etc and they can use them.But, if looking this way, can mute wife tell her husband she wants to have sex with him? Only because someone can't use mouth & tongue to express something, doesn't mean the communication is not possible. You won't hear "Come to me, darling!" from animal, but they have plenty of other ways to show us their consent - raising tail, "winking", shuddering against us (dolphins), purring with enjoyment, anything what they do when usually allow partner. If bitch raises her tail in front of male dog when allows him, how can you explain that bitch acts the same in front of you?Unfortunately, society needs to look at that topic closer first, instead of repeating popular "truths" all the time.
Body language is quite often, MUCH more clear than words. Yes, an animal can easily and plainly offer concent. They also are more than capable of saying "no" - even with teeth if they see fit.
QUOTE (dawgz @ Mar 6 2005, 12:31 AM) Body language is quite often, MUCH more clear than words. Yes, an animal can easily and plainly offer concent. They also are more than capable of saying "no" - even with teeth if they see fit. And one more thing - animals are, unlike what people tend to say, much more aware than many teenage girls nowadays (not insulting more sensible ones, of course) When mare or bitch raises her tail in front of human, she fully knows what is she doing and what for. But does girl on the disco when ends up in bed with almost unknown guy and gets pregnant in the age of sixteen? I don't think so.
My little collie didn't bother with consent or anything like that. He knew exactly what my lady wanted and did what only came naturally to him. No training, no coercion, just two beings having fun!
Ive had a mare that id only meet once a week on my (legitimate) trips to an adjistment , squat and pee then stand there winking (still squatted and braced) tail arched waaaayy over to the side.Now this is a clear *take me now* and i had no power over that animal, i never fed it, walked it, trained it or disciplined it, i was only its friend.All this was from mutual grooming contact over a fence, and after 1/2 hr of this i just wonderd how she'd react if i stood where a stallion would on the occasions when they "ask" to mount (about 2 leg lengths back and 45 degrees to the side taking the tail as zero degrees) Not only was this horse begging me to climb on board.. when i didnt do so (waaay too public) she looked very dissapointed and did not understand.i take the point that where people are involved consent dosent always factor into the equation, but insofar as they CAN consent , they can and sometimes do.
Yes animal do consent, my mare is only 19 months old, and she is already showing her self to me, and winking.I did have a mini stallion, and no was not a answer to him, if you resisted him he would rape you very aggressively.And try to get him off was almost impossible, so yes animals do consent.
A bitch may not verbily consent, but when she stands in front of you and flages you, that is consent in no uncertain terms.
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Here is a consent story for you. I train attack dogs. My bitch is the best attack dog i trained. i never trained her how to unfason my belt and button and take down my zipper in under two seconds though. quite an amusing unexpected parlor trick when she does it to me when i have guests. then sits there and throws balls and toys at my head when i have to shoo her away. no way did i train her that ^.^My vicious little snugglebutt puppy.
when my bitch mounts my leg or perks her tail up when i come near, its a dream come true. if thats NOT consenting, i dont know what is.
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