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Ponder this... It has been in all of or times that homosex was illegal or considered a abomination around the world. Yet public opinion changes. Open homosex in many countries is now normal, with many tv showas having openly gay couples in staring roles. The gay liberation started (I think) about 30 years ago with the police raid on "Stonewall" in San Francisco. Now there love is protected from discrimination by law (Most industrialized naitons) So, when will our love recive the same protection?What will be our Stonewall? I know the same could be said of pedophilia but what im refering to is the consentual sex between man/animal.Give me you thoughts...
There's one HUGE difference between zoophilia and homosexuality.It is animals..I remember how many times I've been told on forums that I "use" animals as sex toys because I'm too lame to get myself a girlfriend......Also,don't forget the animal rights warriors,they are something gays didn't have to "fight" with (I mean,who protected a gay's lover? ((who was also a human)) )Hope you get what I mean "So, when will our love recive the same protection?"Not in this life.
Hello One day we will be accepted. But several things have to happen first. 1) people need to realize that we are a community and that there are to many of us to be ignored. 2) The media needs to stop painting such a dark picture of us. All of the times that you hear of zoophilia in the new it is always something bad. Something like "The accused raped the animal" 3) And lastly I firmly believe that as zoophiles we need to find a way to seperate ourselves from beastialists. And when I say that the people who I am referring to are those who use animals solely for sex, those who do not care for the animal and what they are feeling and those who force an animal to do things that it does not want to do. Until these things happen there is no hope of us even being tolerated. There is hope though. A new yahoo group has been started for this reason in particular. The group is titled zoophiles destiny and you can link to it through clicking on the www button under this post. Currently we are only trying to see how many members we can get. The group was started on Feb 29 and we now have 43 members. Once we get an overwhelming amout of members we will see what we can do. When ever that happens we will decide as a group what the next step should be. If you consider yourself to be a zoophile then it is in your best interest to sign up. You may one day be surprised by what a couple of clicks can do.
Well said ---2---!! There inst much left to add so i just stay silent
One thing that bothers me is that one of our major detractors also cares about animals - vets. Yet they think they're right, and we're wrong, and a lot of people will trust a vet's word over ours.Zoos love their animals, we don't just fuck them. We care about them, and may even risk our life for them. So I don't appreciate someone who thinks they're superior because they have the word DOCTOR in front of their name. We are looking at animal care from two different perspectives - clinical vs. emotional. They care about our animals for ten or fifteen minutes a year, unless something major occurs - we care about them 24/7.
QUOTE (sjpor @ Mar 11 2004, 08:43 PM) One thing that bothers me is that one of our major detractors also cares about animals - vets. Yet they think they're right, and we're wrong, and a lot of people will trust a vet's word over ours.Zoos love their animals, we don't just fuck them. We care about them, and may even risk our life for them. So I don't appreciate someone who thinks they're superior because they have the word DOCTOR in front of their name. We are looking at animal care from two different perspectives - clinical vs. emotional. They care about our animals for ten or fifteen minutes a year, unless something major occurs - we care about them 24/7. You really couldn't of said it better.
Sadly all of that doesnt count when it comes to sexual abuse You could risk your life to save your dog but in the second someone says you're having intercourse with your dog your are 'sick' an [EMAIL REMOVED - USE THE PRIVATE MESSAGE SYSTEM], abuser and so on...
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QUOTE (Honeyraptor @ Mar 11 2004, 10:23 PM) Sadly all of that doesnt count when it comes to sexual abuse You could risk your life to save your dog but in the second someone says you're having intercourse with your dog your are 'sick' an 'r@pist', abuser and so on... And that is something that saddens me to my core. I hate thinking about how my love is percieved among the general public. That is something that truly saddens me.
And somehow it shows me how much better animals can be! They dont judge you because you're not normal cause you love a dog instead another closedminded human...
QUOTE (Honeyraptor @ Mar 11 2004, 10:36 PM) And somehow it shows me how much better animals can be! They dont judge you because you're not normal cause you love a dog instead another closedminded human... You are completely right. Discovering this love has brought me closer to dogs. I love them all so much now where as before I did not. So much good can truly come from so much darkness.
Where light is is also darkness!And i concider the love i enjoy with my Benny and all my past loves as the brightest light of my life! I dont care for the darkness that is the rest of the world who judges us by rules that will never fit except to their own blindness for real love...
Personaly I think its the zoophile's that brought up the animal rights.In my own opion of course, but if there were no zoophile's.What would this world be without them?
QUOTE (Honeyraptor @ Mar 11 2004, 10:52 PM) Where light is is also darkness!And i concider the love i enjoy with my Benny and all my past loves as the brightest light of my life! I dont care for the darkness that is the rest of the world who judges us by rules that will never fit except to their own blindness for real love... Until we can be understood darkness will haunt out paths. It is up to us to light our way.
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I don't get it they keep on about abuse at that crap but the animals surely enjoy our love!
A big thing that has to happen first:Perhaps there will come a day when the law in the U.S. will recognize that the only function of the State in regard to marriage is to publicly validate the choices made by consenting adults; then it will get out of the Religion business (where it has no business being, in my "separation of Church & State" opinion). Then LET the Churches refuse to marry me because I have red hair if they want; I don't give a shit!This will allow people to live with the partners they want to, without the State having to pass a moral judgement on them, which it shouldn't be doing anyway....Perhaps when we have gotten that far, perhaps then people will look more kindly upon our love. But I don't think it could happen before then, and certainly not in my lifetime....Doglet"Scratch a Dog and you'll find a permanent job." Franklin P. Jones
Doglet, your post reminded me of a personal experience I had. My partner and I wanted to marry and I wanted the ceremony to take place in the same church my parents were married in. I was told by the pastor that the religion I was BY BIRTH a member of, would NOT marry us as we had had a child together out of wedlock, even though we had been in a committed relationship for 7 years!My best friend is a homosexual. He hid his true self for 28 years before he felt that he was stong enough to cope with the backlash his 'coming out' would cause. And still then never imagined how much his sexual.....persuasion?...would be an issue in his trying to live his life, even today.As much as I would love PUBLIC acceptance of the fact that I AM a zoo, I just cant see it happening in my lifetime. That fact makes me sad because being a zoo is such a small part of who I am and yet I KNOW it would be the biggest part on which I would be judged.
QUOTE (Animal Lover @ Mar 15 2004, 07:21 PM) I don't get it they keep on about abuse at that crap but the animals surely enjoy our love! Are you born with it, or are you just acting?
I hope for a tolerant world on everything sexual ( between equal partners )....But I think this won't happen soon....Depends on changes in the society. Just think about it, homosexuality was not a big issue in ancient greek and the roman empire....Animals had godlike status in ancient egypt, cats especially in the form of the goddess Bastet. They were a lot nearer to zoophilia and sexual tolerance then we are now. Currently we are close to sexual tollerance, especially in Europe, but who can tell what will happen in 10 or 20 years....Will there be a complete denial of sex ( don't laugh, just think of HIV/AIDS ) ? Or a new religious fanatism in christianity ?....
Well I think that zoo's shuld stand up and make there marks like gay's did.. But coming from a Scandinavian contry I dont face the same problem as many of you. It is legal in Denmark and Iceland to have sexual contat with animals, as long as you dont hurt them. I cant remember if it is legal in Sweden and Norway, but I am pritty sure that it is legal there as well.
Unfortunately, this won't happen for a VERY long time.Zoophilia wasn't illegal in France, only hurting animals was (which is just the right law IMO), and the right-wing government changed this last month to two years in jail and 30.000 euros to pay.A huge step backwards ...
QUOTE (Fokker @ Mar 17 2004, 01:25 AM) Well I think that zoo's shuld stand up and make there marks like gay's did.. But coming from a Scandinavian contry I dont face the same problem as many of you. It is legal in Denmark and Iceland to have sexual contat with animals, as long as you dont hurt them. I cant remember if it is legal in Sweden and Norway, but I am pritty sure that it is legal there as well. It is still legal in Sweden to have sex with animals, though some of the parties wants to make it illegal, but as in most cases, it is the lack of knowledge and understanding of zoophilia that is causing most damage. They have their minds set and can't change it no matter what happens.I don't know if we can stand up like the Gay community did, as gays were interacting with other humans, which They say can speak their mind and also say that we interprete what animals say in our ways, and not "the true way" as they want to hear it.They are not seeing the animals behaviour nor are the recognising the patterns. So sadly I don't think that we will be that understood and as a species are proned to be intollerant to things which are different.I do agree with you, and in old time Europe, there were marriage rituals and sexual rituals between man and animal. Although very tragic in the ending, and not something that I like, there are two old rituals which spring to mind:1. The old indo-germanic mare-ritual. used by celts and some others. The king (actually a prisoner, yet acting in the kings place) would have full sex with a white mare, before an audience, representing the marriage and consumating of such. The mare would sadly be killed and eaten by the tribe afterwards.2. The Indic Asvamedha ritual. As far as I know in old time India. A stallion would be brought out, and be in a pasture for a full year, with a herd of mares, but he was not allowed to breed any, and there were people there to make sure of that. After the year, the stallion would be brought into a room, where the queen was, and only women allowed in there. The stallion would be laid down and be covered by a large blanket, with the queen, and the women around would be saying sexual sentences and stuff, indicating sex. The stallion would afterwards be killed.
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It'll be a looooooooong time untill zoophila/bestiality is accepted ito the communtiy!They have to realise we are not just fucking the animals, we care and love them like a "normal" couple!
Well I think it will need a dramatical change in the society if sex with animals will become legal. Although I notice that more and more comercials and movies are using it to sell. Maybe this is a good sign (more people getting used to the idea) but it can also have a negative effect like confirming the cliches . I agree the biggest problem is that society consider us as sexualy frustrated people who [CENSOR] animals and stuff. Sometimes we're being compared with child rapers or necrophiles and this makes me sooooo angry Well SM was also very taboo a couple of years ago and now it's more accepted although I don't think you can compare the 2 at all. That stuff I heared from you guys (like the stuff in France, damn simba that must hurt) about penalizing bestiality sucks bigtime, a huge step backwards damn
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I have traveled the world and I have noticed this. Some countries zoo is legal and some not.The countries where it's legal. In every case. The locally accepted religon accepts animals as a part of living, life, and having souls.Where it is not. In every case. The local religon says no, animals have no souls.In one primative tribal group I met. It was not illegal, but on the rare occasions it was observed everyone talked about it. Not shunning or imprisioning, just poor so-and-so did this and can we help with the problem.I've also noticed the activists always pick the most advanced lands. With the best media coverage and the most available money to stage their demonstrations.
QUOTE (clweed @ Mar 20 2004, 11:43 PM) I have traveled the world and I have noticed this. Some countries zoo is legal and some not.The countries where it's legal. In every case. The locally accepted religon accepts animals as a part of living, life, and having souls.Where it is not. In every case. The local religon says no, animals have no souls.In one primative tribal group I met. It was not illegal, but on the rare occasions it was observed everyone talked about it. Not shunning or imprisioning, just poor so-and-so did this and can we help with the problem.I've also noticed the activists always pick the most advanced lands. With the best media coverage and the most available money to stage their demonstrations. It is indeed through the mass media that most of the misconceptions are made about us. I can tell you though that if they were ever able to open their eyes they would be blinded by the light that shines off of us. Never before have I been more proud to be a zoo. This community is the most caring, most selfless out there. The beauty that shines of of all of you people touches me right down to my soul. The only shame of this all is that we seem to be the only ones who are able to recognize it. Hopefully one day the world will open their eyes to us and realize that we are good people.
clweed: Hmm, that reminds me of something i expeareanced back when i was still visitng church to get confirmated (sp?)I had a rather rough debate with our priest about the topic of souls and if everything has one. I said everything in which live flows has a sould and the preist denyed it.Lets make it short at the end he said if god wanted every being to be equal qith us he would have only created humans I think in the moment everyone - no matter of which race, religion, etc - has to accept and admit that animals have a sould they will have to accept that animals are equal to us!IMHO one of the biggest reasons we zoos arnt accepted is that so many cant understand why we would want to have sex or love a being that is lower then a human! Just take the so often used phrase: "Its just a dog!"If those people who think that way would have to accept that a dog has a soul just like a human they would see how wrong that phrase is! Just imagine one would say: Hey its just a human! (i did that once when a guy got overrun by a car and damn you should have seen those looks. If they would have been able to [CENSOR] i wouldnt write this...) To me there is no diference between a human and a animal, both breath, both eat, both bleed and both die... Where is the difference?!?Like you said, in most of those regions where relegion accepts that animals have souls its zoophilia is legal - where not its illegal.(I think i gonna add this point to my thoughts about relegion)I think one of the most importand things to make our likings and loves legal is to show those believers that an animal is equal to any human!!And i believe that is way more difficult then to make our lifestyle legal...
honeyraptor, sed: Where light is is also darkness!And i concider the love i enjoy with my Benny and all my past loves as the brightest light of my life! I dont care for the darkness that is the rest of the world who judges us by rules that will never fit except to their own blindness for real love...[/SIZE][/COLOR] ____________________________________________________amen, and amen, honey... with few exceptions, my best and most reliable friends in my life have been my pets, dogs, and cats... i currently own no dogs but am "owned" by 4 cats... (does anyone truly own a cat??? ) anyway, ive had to be careful myself in past because i was in a field which looks down on this type of relationship, and actually saw some in military jail among other things, sodomy (where any not "normal" sexual activity fell in the military...) but i felt i was protecting all fellow countymen, not just the ones who were "normal" or didnt practice "perversions" you and your love for your benny and past loves are beautiful in my eyes, and i salute you dear... cunninglinguist
Ponder this... It has been in all of or times that homosex was illegal or considered a abomination around the world. Yet public opinion changes. Open homosex in many countries is now normal, with many tv showas having openly gay couples in staring roles. The gay liberation started (I think) about 30 years ago with the police raid on "Stonewall" in San Francisco. Now there love is protected from discrimination by law (Most industrialized naitons) _________________________________________________________So, when will our love recive the same protection? i am sad to say, i believe never... or at the very least, well past our lifetimes... there will always be those who do understand, or at least tolerate our interests and proclivities without judging, but the vast majority will be against it and that is why there are so many laws in this land and across other nations against and if not prosecuting, the persecuting zoo's.my best advise would be DONT HOLD YOUR BREATH!!!cunninglinguist
QUOTE (Honeyraptor @ Mar 21 2004, 12:19 AM) I think one of the most importand things to make our likings and loves legal is to show those believers that an animal is equal to any human!!And i believe that is way more difficult then to make our lifestyle legal... I agree completely with this HR. This is definately a huge roadblock. Until people can understand the depth an animal's love has then there is very little hope. Animals are equal to us in many ways. We need to open people's eyes.
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Consider the controversy surrounding the gay marriage thing and then ponder what would happen if we tried to push our issue.....sorry folks, but i just dont see it happening.Guns
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cunninglinguist: Thanks Sadly i live in a different country but hey, wheres the difference - we are all humans arnt we? ---2---: Well i think the possibility that we and our love will be accepted some day is way bigger then that we will be able to prove that animals have a soul!Sadly there are still to many closedminded people out there who cant and dont want to accept that there is something equal to the 'allmighte - perfect - unique - godchild' human As long as so many people still believe in the words of someone who 'learend' and got 'taught' to believe into a higher being we will allways run against walls... (NOTE: This wasnt ment as an attack towards any believers or members of a relegion!)Gunslinger: Those controversy arnt happening everywhere. There are countrys where noone cares anymore if someone is gay or not or if he/she wants to marry another gay. I might be only 24 but in my life i've seen countrys come and go, i've seen people get in charge and leave. When i was young it was 'bad' to be gay and getting called to be gay was one of the worsed things that could happen to someone. Now noone longer cares if he gets called like that, gay or not its normal, it became a part of the world.There are so many things that became 'normal' im sure one day our love will also be 'normal' - though i still doubt that we will be completly accepted by the majority...
Just to point out an inaccuracy, homosexuality has not always been illegal or despised by society, that is a fairly recent change in the history of humanity that because popular around the time of patriarchy.If you look back to the ancient greek culture, you will find that the love of a young male was considered the most beautiful form and that the relationship (sexual and not) between a younger man and an older one was considered to be the most rewarding and desired. Men only married and had relations with their wives for the begetting of children.If you look to the island of Lesbos in Greece, the word lesbian comes from there. It was well known to be a haven for women who were lovers together and honoured women loving women.In modern times, the reason why male homosexuality was outlawed goes back to the time of Queen Victoria of England. She outlawed sex between men but not women because as she saw it, that could not possibly happen (women don't have penises).As for sex with animals, well it has always happened. One of the reasons it was believed God destroyed Sodom was because the people had become so corrupt, they were considered to be having sexual relations with animals instead of each other. Its not the actual reason, but one that has been handed down. (Well, it all depends on whether you believe in god or not...but that's another issue.)michelle
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I have had many gay and lesbian freinds in my life, and some very good freinds, they knew where i stood, and that was iti have never held any predjudice one sexuallity, race or religion, what you do or believe in is your business as long as it hurts no one else.but in saying that we get to the acceptance of homosexuallity, yes it is great that they are being accepted, but it took some one to start it by standing up to be countedmy point is, who among us is willing to stand up and say what they are and that they wish to be accepted, and unfortunatly, untill someone does and faces the legal system and society.............it wont even look like changingmichelle in chainz, you come from the same country as me, just a queastion, would you consider telling your family and friends you were gay, (if that was the case)and then would you tell them that you were a zoo
it's very interesting, as a gay man, to read this thread. I think you answer your own questions just by the nature of your question itself. There is still a huge stigma associated with being gay, thus your using it to compare to another stimatized lifestyle... and hiv was immediately associated back to gays too -if it is sooo popular to be gay -why is it that whenever a contraversial human rights question arises it immediately reverts back to gays??? once out of the woods, it seems the world forgets the struggle - stonewall became infamous (btw -it was NYC not SanFran) because it was a slaughter -we were beaten stoned and even killed -these men (and women) were the epitomy of courage -they took a stance and fought to the death -them against the world -but don't ever forget my friends -you don't get a medal for saving your own ass -you just get to see another day... the struggle was survival -not acceptance. and that applies to hiv too. We watched our best friends die -and we watched our new best friends die too -and then again! and again! and again and again!@#! I'm not so sure you can realize the struggle we have endured -in fact I am certain that you can not -you have zero idea what we have endured -it's sometimes still even inconcievable to ourselves -and then there was the salt in the open wounds -before we could finish grieving we became the scapegoats -I can assure you that it was not fashionable to be gay in the 80's -or even know a gay man -it was like leoparsy -it's so easy to kick a man when he is down... and once again we endured -the gay man is now the lowest hiv contracting minority in the world -but I am here to remind you of the cost...-as of yet there are few witch hunts for zoos as it remains predominately behind closed doors -and so I ask you -are you sure you want to open those doors? are your willing to sustain the casulaties of war?
if you could prove that animals are people excpet they just carnt talk human then you could morally argue with the goverments and courts that its right.
Not in this lifetime.....
Honestly, people will always judge what they don't understand....I know that in the end everyone will find something that will make them happy. If the person and the animal is happy, why does it matter in the end?
It will never be legal. BTW the Stonewall INN incident happened in Greenwich Village in NYC NY. Not San Franscisco!
QUOTE (michelle_in_chainz @ Mar 28 2005, 04:02 AM)Just to point out an inaccuracy, homosexuality has not always been illegal or despised by society, that is a fairly recent change in the history of humanity that because popular around the time of patriarchy.Er... you do realize how silly that is, right? Ancient Greece was far more patriarchical than modern civilization. Women were often treated as property (yes, there are exceptions, but exceptions do not make up a rule).It's rather amusing to me to hear someone call today's society -- one of the most woman-friendly societies in known history -- a patriarchy. Maybe we still are, but only nominally. These days, it's women, for the most part, who are revered and worshipped as good and wholesome and perfect, and men who are seen as stupid and venal and unworthy. Doubt me? Go on any college campus and try to give a lecture on "men's rights." You may want to wear body armor...No, while ancient Greece was far more tolerant of male homosexuality than modern society is, it isn't because it was somehow less patriarchical. In fact, if you read Plato or others of the era, you'll see that it's because the love of a man for a man was seen as morally superior to the love of a man for a woman. Because, in fact, in their eyes, women themselves were inferior -- put there primarily to make babies. Hardly a woman-friendly society.On topic, people have always feared those who are different, so I don't frankly see this behavior as ever really "coming out of the closet." It may eventually become legal (don't hold your breath), but I really don't ever see society at large as accepting it. We're simply too deeply programmed to fear and hate what's different...
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"I "use" animals as sex toys because I'm too lame to get myself a girlfriend......"Better than being told that you are acting out because of being abused as a child.The stuff people come up with to belittle our lifestyle is never flattering.I don't think we'll ever see widespread acceptance. The best we can do is be there for one another.
Beastiality will never be made legal in developed counties. That's because animals are considered a lower species that needs to be protected. Our society doesn't sanction adults engaging in sexual intercourse with children, why would they sanction it with "dumb animals"? Legal, never. Homosexuality is different since its between consenting adults.
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I don't think it will happen.
QUOTE (Eagleclaw @ Apr 29 2005, 12:41 PM)Beastiality will never be made legal in developed counties. That's because animals are considered a lower species that needs to be protected. Our society doesn't sanction adults engaging in sexual intercourse with children, why would they sanction it with "dumb animals"? Legal, never. Homosexuality is different since its between consenting adults.I 100% agree. Because an animal can not tell you "don't" or "no" means you are using an animal that can not tell you what they or don't like or do or don't want. I'm a female, if i'm having sex with a dog then by all rights he's having sex with me. He's following a basic primal urge to mate and i'm reaping the benefits. It's seen as sadistic and wrong. the difference between beast and zoo will never be fully realized because most people are too afraid of things in their own right, or because they hide behind God.
QUOTE (Eagleclaw @ Apr 29 2005, 05:41 PM) Beastiality will never be made legal in developed counties. That's because animals are considered a lower species that needs to be protected. Our society doesn't sanction adults engaging in sexual intercourse with children, why would they sanction it with "dumb animals"? Legal, never. Homosexuality is different since its between consenting adults. It's legal here in the Netherlands (and several other 'developed' countries aswell) - as long as these conservative politicians don't get reminded they wanted to ban it I hope it'll stay that way. Sadly, the trend is to ban it in the few places where it is legal, not to 'unban' it in places where it isn't.
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QUOTE (whiskers @ Mar 16 2004, 02:48 PM) . That fact makes me sad because being a zoo is such a small part of who I am and yet I KNOW it would be the biggest part on which I would be judged. I think about this a lot. Every time someone compliments me at work, or on my abiltiies with children, or any number of things, I think how quickly they would forget those good traits if they knew what I really was.
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There's a difference between legal and open. Having sex with an animal in the privacy of your own home is not the same as doing it openly in public. That's why you'll never see legalized beastiality videos. I think the poster means when will beastilaity become open and accepted in society.
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QUOTE (Eagleclaw @ Apr 30 2005, 03:28 AM)That's why you'll never see legalized beastiality videos. In my opinion even than, when it will be legalized, a lot of people will NEVER accept us. One time i heard that beastiality videos are legal in holland, I don't know that's true or not maybe someone here knows something about it ?
C'mon people!, lets be optimistic here!, let's look ath the historic lessons, in movies like Ben Hur they managed discreete gayish scenes, nowdays there is the same attitude towards zooishnes (like planet of the apes remake), in ads, movies and so forth.My point is people starts flirting with zooishnes, they start using it in ads, as a joke on movies or on tv series, far better than being something of a big taboo where you can put your own fears, like satanic cults or stuf like thatAll in all we have a LOT of work to do, but I think we are in the right path (besides, we can organize ourselves better and faster since we have the net)[COLOR=blue]Rich man looking for a tolerant woman with a beautifull plase send pictures (of the dog),
Instead of trying to pursuade people that 'animals are people too' and 'we love our lovers just like you do' it might be easier to point out to them that since dogs (for example) enjoy having many parts of thier bodies scratched, rubbed and/or fingered, then they might enjoy having other parts recieving similar treatment.Putting the emphasis on making the animal feel good might be an easier pill for the public to swallow.Rona.
historically people were fine with zoo the wife to one roman empror even had beast sex in public for her own plesure and that of the mob.But in eurpoe over the last 1500yrs it has been seen as very primal and beastal in nature and not a act of loveing union. The exact same parrales with public attitued can be folowed with the peoples attitueds to sex with moniors an as i sertanly hope we all hear are againts that.Thus i think in most nations there will never be a time when we will be accaept maby we will not be prosecuted but never accepted.
QUOTE (skin2 Posted on May 16 2005 @ 08:00 PM) historically people were fine with zoo the wife to one roman empror even had beast sex in public for her own plesure and that of the mob.But in eurpoe over the last 1500yrs it has been seen as very primal and beastal in nature and not a act of loveing union. Thus i think in most nations there will never be a time when we will be accaept maby we will not be prosecuted but never accepted. And not to forget Skin2, Caligula made love to his stallion a few times, possibly before he made him a senator. I think that during the last 1500 years christianity has been kinda ruling and it's basic thought has been that sex with animals has been connected to areas of witchcraft and devil worship not to forget some think that one is league with demons or devils as it's unnatural. It was also thought that sex with animals WOULD result in offspring which would be highly deformed, but you don't need sex with animals to get deformed children. Look at the Elephantman. I DOUBT that his mom had gotten humped by an elephant.Alos I think that the "line between Man & Animal" got more defined during that era and Man thought of itself as being superior and if one has sex with animals it may mean that they are on the same level as animals.I doubt that all or most nations will be as accepting to Zoos as they are to gays. It may be legal to have sex and make love yet I doubt it'll be as easy to make love on the beach with your eek-wine or K9 wife or hubby. I would prefer as a start that the majority of the human kind would realize our love fur these lovely creatures and not compare our passions with those who are into human children. That they understand that there is a BIG difference between them. SvadilfariSvadilfari
Thank you Svadilfari i think you put the point more eliganlty than i did but shared the same ponits
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Thank you very much Skin2 Just saying the way I feel about this. I feel it sad that the opinion of Zoo is the way it is. They say that they all try and work against all forms of discrimination, but when it comes to Zoo that doesn't seem to apply there. Instead they try and ridicule us. It's always (it seems) easier to make fun of things we don't understand than it is finding out the facts.True that there are those that abuse animals, but they are NOT in my opinion true zoophiles. They may either just see the $$-value of them or the $$ they can bring in, or also just feel that they are better in owning alot of animals but can't be bothered or can't take care of them properly.I also think that ignorance is a very human trait. For many it's easier to not research things to know how things are, to understand the facts fully as that means they have to take a stand. It's also possible that if they actually DID know the facts behind Zoophilia they may actually change their minds and for many it's possibly pride or something else that makes them feel hard to change.It could also be that they feel that they are superior, both in mind and etc to animals making themselves feel special and exclusive. To stand out against the rest. The rest being animals in general.Svadilfari
I do not see this happening in my lifetime. The very fact that we are zoos sets us apart from the rest. How can they ever understand if their minds are not able? Someone with a musical "gift" can not explain how to play music to someone who is tone deaf. It is my understanding that we all (zoos) have a special gift of animal empathy. Trying to explain this to someone who isn't zoo is futile.
QUOTE (Feral @ Jul 28 2005, 11:20 PM) I do not see this happening in my lifetime. The very fact that we are zoos sets us apart from the rest. How can they ever understand if their minds are not able? Someone with a musical "gift" can not explain how to play music to someone who is tone deaf. It is my understanding that we all (zoos) have a special gift of animal empathy. Trying to explain this to someone who isn't zoo is futile. This is kind of closed minded, don't you think? Someone can still be open minded to it and not like it. Saying something like that is making you just like the people who refuse to accept you.How can you expect anyone to understand you if you assume they wont, or automaticly group them into a category of not being able to understand if they do not agree with you?I'm going to give an example here. My boyfriend is not into beast at all. When he found out my interests he didn't like it at all and showed some negative actions against it. What do you think would of happened if I instantly blew him off and didn't give a chance for both of us to voice our opinions? He wouldn't be here now, that's for sure. It would of caused a huge rift in our relationship. But you know what? I gave him a chance and in return, he gave me the same chance. Now, he may not like it, but he accepts that I do like animals.I know not everyone would be able to do this, having an open mind like he did, but if you group *everyone* like that.. then you're never going to find people who accept you.I'm not trying to be negative or anything.. I'm just trying to say, if you want someone else to take a step.. you have to too.
Good point Stub. I often say, (all things considered.....harm, danger, etc....) people don't have to like what others do BUT they should NOT go about preventing that person from indulging in their likes.Having an open mind I can understand and respect someone for not liking zoo. What I don't support is that person judging, condeming or stopping (or trying to stop) others from liking it.
Eventually it will be legalized in North America (assuming this is where most of the people posting here are from). I'm only 20 years old, but I see zoophilia being more and more rampent eveywhere. Movies are hinting at it, TV shows are too, last time I was on the subway reading a local Toronto newspaper, where suprise suprise, there was a whole page and article dedicated to zoophilia. It even mentioned this website in it. It's just looked down upon by society with the above mentioned reasons...oh it's satanic etc etc...raping animals...against their will this and that...but in reality the opposition knows nothing about it. Just like I used to be biased towards homo's, and many people still are, society looks at us the same way. Once someone proves that these animals actually want to hump the shit out of people of their own free will, it will come out into the open and peoples opinions will change...Of course...like someone said here...it probably won't be in this lifetime...I personally don't care anyways...I don't need to parade myself around the streets saying I'm an animal lover...what's important to me is that I can have animals...and what I might or might not do with them (and vice versa) will be in my house behind closed doors. The day they start installing cameras in homes and have "Big Brother" watching...Ill be in trouble
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QUOTE (lavalamp777 @ Jul 31 2005, 01:02 AM) Eventually it will be legalized in North America (assuming this is where most of the people posting here are from). I'm only 20 years old, but I see zoophilia being more and more rampent eveywhere. Movies are hinting at it, TV shows are too, last time I was on the subway reading a local Toronto newspaper, where suprise suprise, there was a whole page and article dedicated to zoophilia. It even mentioned this website in it. lava is right. i see/hear about bestiality a lot now a days... not to mention that one time i saw a woman playing with a rottweilers balls at a public dog adoption... everyone saw it. to my suprise, no one stopped her. THAT'S A GOOD SIGN!!!
I'm more optimistic, I say some where between 50 to 100 years there will be great advancements for the zoophiles... IF we organize.We should do sometime to help remove the laws that says "ethical bestiality is illegal" that is the only thing that zoophiles have to fear right now (and discrimination)
From what I have seen in this world, maybe in the very distant future, but not be in my life time.
Here in Australia, you can get up to 14 years in jail for 'committing' beastiality, & 5 years for even attempting it. It would break my heart to hear about people fucking animals against their will, even though i'm a zoophile. I would want THOSE people charged!I've seen a video of a man with a female dog, & her tail was happily wagging away the whole time, so she obviously WASN'T being hurt!, but in fact liked or even loved it.I think I became zoocurious after being 'attacked' by a male dog years & years ago when I was young, then became a zoophile after realising how nice it was. I didn't DELIBERATELY get into k9 sex. But I think its a matter of having your zoophile switch flicked, where you can't turn it off. I wouldn't probably have chosen this lifestyle by choice, even though I have always liked animals as friends. But now in this stupid do-gooder influenced country I could be jailed for as long as someone who has committed MANSLAUGHTER! - of a human! Such fools should NEVER be given so much power! They think they are seen as being heroes, & 'pro-active' by making MORE & MORE laws all the time. But not by me! Every law they make takes a little bit more freedom away from us - never forget that.Keep it in private like regular sex is all that is required, not be viewed like a FELONY!I've not had experience with female k9's, but I've read quite a few stories about them 'pestering' their male owners for sex, even when they're not in heat.Despite the undeniable evidence (for me anyway) that dogs enjoy sex with humans, I cannot see the laws in this country changing. With the authorities here blindly marching down the (100% WRONG) man-made climate change path as an excuse for global government & greater control over us, they're not going to be relaxing ANY laws except what suits THEIR own ends.If you want to see LEGALISED ANIMAL ABUSE, look up the kennel club. I was sickened & saddened one day to see a competition/show with beautiful (on initial glance) German Shepherds on parade. Except the winning dog was SO genetically inbread (father>daughter>sister>mother>brother etc), that his back legs barely had the strength to run. Even when he was walking, his backside was swaying from side to side with every step of his wonky back legs.That was awful - the poor fella - & people cheered & applauded! These sick cunts forget that this poor guy has this condition 24/7 - not just when he's on show. & what damage is being done to the breed's gene pool when human's force continuous incestuous unions so they can WIN AWARDS! I don't want to even think about the failed births/mutants born in between 'CHAMPIONS'. Throw THEM in jail!
There is one thing i have not seen people mention and it is the SIMPLEST answer ever. it answers all the questions ranging from zoophile, homosexuality, pedophilia, Mental Illness, serial killing and so much more. and that's brain chemistry. it plays a part of making each of us our own individual. our little mental fingerprint. we can't control it. we can't influence it to 'go' a certain way, because it's already written in stone by the age of 15. so that being said. the government is not likely going to look in favor of that explanation, and will continue doing things there way, all the way, and fuck everyone else.so.When Will Our Love Be Legal?it's possible, but not likely....
I started on this site an outsider (albeit a little curious), looking in with disdain and bias. "Oh my god that's DISGUSTING!" and thoughts like that. But the more I observed and took time to get to know you guys by watching how you talked to each other through the forum and started posting myself, I began to realize that you were no different than normal people. That you --no, we-- are perfectly 100% normal in every sense. Basically we're no different from any other person out there. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say, I'm not exactly the greatest linguist around. I came to realize that I was a zoophile, and have been much happier since I came to that revelation. It's no different than a person being straight or gay or bi. When one of my friends told me he was bi, he stated something about how I couldn't understand something like that even if he really did appreciate being able to trust me about it. I wanted, with every fiber of my being, to tell him that I actually understood more than he knew, but I couldn't bring myself to do it. It's still too much of a taboo in America. After what I have witnessed in the news, here, and with my own feelings and stories of others' here, I've come to the conclusion if we push too hard for it we'll just be labeled "extremists" or something like that (already kinda have been) and figuratively "exiled" from the media and dismissed with a joke and a laugh whenever we make a large-scale attempt at acceptance. Unfortunately we've got to make this hard push to even get noticed. I could go on about what would work, form ideas and such, but I'm just not ready to do by my words just yet. I'll save them until I'm willing to make a sacrifice or two. The day will come when I will have the resolve to come out and say what I am, shout it from the streets and rooftops, and be damn proud to say it, but sadly it's not today. I must also thank each and every one of you for helping me discover myself, and this small realm of understanding in a world that now seems incredibly misinformed and full of ignorance on zoophilia, as I once was.Well, that's my two cents on the matter, glad to have it off my chest. Thanks for reading.
If it's still illegal to have a homosexual marriage, and illegal to commit acts of sodomy in some regions, I can safely say I have no faith in zoophilia legalization.
QUOTE (caninev69 @ Jan 1 2011, 11:04 PM)Here in Australia, you can get up to 14 years in jail for 'committing' beastiality, & 5 years for even attempting it.That only sounds like New South Wales. You might want to check the other States and Territories
I do not ever wish that bestiality or zoophilia be legalize anywhere in the wold. forever!why is that? just sit back and think about it.we can all agree that we have rules here that not only keep us safe but also keeps our animals from being harmed in anyway. wither it be guides on sex or the helpful comment from a member. we all love and care for our animals as if they are family. wither sex is your only priority or if it is something more.to legalize what we do would only lead to animals to suffer from sadistic freaks just trying to get themselves off. there would be no way to have laws that protect animals and also allow people to have sex with them. how could you prove that a animal was harmed during sex, the animal cannot testify that it was raped.sometime you just need to take a step back from your emotions and look at the big picture, yes it would be nice for it to be legalized. that satisfaction would only be beneficial to you, think of what could happen to all of the animals out there that dont have owners like us. think of the many brothels and sex trading of animals.animals being trained only for sex, and having to endure sexual torture on a daily bases. I would never wish this on my worst enemy, so why would I allow it to happen to my love.im am sorry to say but if I have to live in the shadow of hate and the lower social status, I would do it a million times to spare the lifetime torture of a animal.
I agree with salsav199.I don't think I'd want it legal could be bad in some ways and not worth it.
I am glad i found this thread!!!Good question!!When will it be legal?Why do we all have to live in fear and mistrust,when premarital sex and homosexual sex are the same thing,it is a preferance,an attraction.Consensual sex between a man and a willing/wet mare is one of the most beautiful things ive ever seen, i would like to try it.I cant get it out of my head actually.I am sick of being compared to a child molester!!! WE ARE NOT THE SAME!!!!tHANK YOU TO MASKED ZOO ON YOUTUBE,WHOEVER YOU ARE I HAVE BEEN WATCHING YOUR ARGUMENTS THERE,AND EVERYWHERE ELSE. i AGREE.Why should we all have to be ashamed of feelings and attractions we all naturally have?I wont get into my hatred for organized religions here but we all know this attitude towards us zoos stems from religion,a lot of the time.Religion influenced law.Bestiality was outlawd a long time ago,for no other good reason than that people were afraid that it would produce monsters.It is 2011 and we live in a society that is still afraid of monsters. lol!!!The acidity of a mares vagina make it impossible for man and horse to produce offspring.[just in case there are any zoo-haters who still want to try to use that argument]Thank you for reading.Have a good day you sexy zoophiles!! i love you![Though not as much as i love mares.] :heart:mares
not to argue but it sounds like your asking "when will it be understood by the general populace". you are not saying if you want it legalized. which would be a very bad idea (as my previous post explains)
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QUOTE (salsav199 @ Jan 3 2011, 04:46 AM) to legalize what we do would only lead to animals to suffer from sadistic freaks just trying to get themselves off. there would be no way to have laws that protect animals and also allow people to have sex with them. how could you prove that a animal was harmed during sex, the animal cannot testify that it was raped. In the countries where bestiality is legal, don't have that problem, because only ethical zoosex is legal, unethical zoosex is still illegal and punishable under animal abuse laws.When we say "we want bestiality legal" is because in some countries, you will be send to jail for: masturbating a dog or kissing him or sleeping in bed with him. They making a victimless crime illegal and punishing innocent people.What is needs is to fight against those laws that discriminate against zoosexuals that do not harm or rape animals.
when it becomes a fixaztion for everyone to be curious , then maybe we might get our day
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QUOTE (salsav199 @ Jan 3 2011, 04:46 AM) I do not ever wish that bestiality or zoophilia be legalize anywhere in the wold. forever!why is that? just sit back and think about it.we can all agree that we have rules here that not only keep us safe but also keeps our animals from being harmed in anyway. wither it be guides on sex or the helpful comment from a member. we all love and care for our animals as if they are family. wither sex is your only priority or if it is something more.to legalize what we do would only lead to animals to suffer from sadistic freaks just trying to get themselves off. there would be no way to have laws that protect animals and also allow people to have sex with them. how could you prove that a animal was harmed during sex, the animal cannot testify that it was raped.sometime you just need to take a step back from your emotions and look at the big picture, yes it would be nice for it to be legalized. that satisfaction would only be beneficial to you, think of what could happen to all of the animals out there that dont have owners like us. think of the many brothels and sex trading of animals.animals being trained only for sex, and having to endure sexual torture on a daily bases. I would never wish this on my worst enemy, so why would I allow it to happen to my love.im am sorry to say but if I have to live in the shadow of hate and the lower social status, I would do it a million times to spare the lifetime torture of a animal. I really can not agree with you even slightly there Salsav. Dog Lover hit the nail on the head (and gets my 10) that there are already laws in place to protect animals genuinely harmed where as all the beastiality laws do is punish people for being different. I really don't think they make the slightest alteration in the welfare level of animals. Sadistic people will always do what they want and these laws are no deterrent to those that do cause harm. Thinking the persecution of zoophilia and bestiality will help prevent the sickos doing anything is like thinking Marajuana laws stop people using weed. They don't they just create more criminals out of innocent people. Any of us could lose our career's, our friend's, our family's and most importantly our lover's due to a single tiny slip up. Theres no way I could look at this situtaion and see any positive side. We have a law that prevents nothing and has the possibility of destroying the lives of totally innocent people. Also I can't see the whole sex industry thing happeneing. There are already countries where sex with animals is legal and I haven't heard of animal brothels popping up left right and centre. In actual fact if you think about it the prostitution side of things would likely be covered by existing laws forbidding/controlling prositution existing in many places. Sex with woman is legal but most countries aren't liberal on allowing prostitution, so likely these places would still be targetted if they did appear.And to Caninev69 I just want to add that I really agree with you on the pedigree breeding thing.
QUOTE (Dog lover @ Jan 3 2011, 03:52 PM)In the countries where bestiality is legal, don't have that problem, because only ethical zoosex is legal, unethical zoosex is still illegal and punishable under animal abuse laws.I would have to disagree. how could you possibly as I said before prove that what was done was "ethical" or not. so simply because you think their are no problems, that is the furthes from the truth. their might be animals raped but the law cannot prosicute the aggressor because it falls under the "ethical" stand point. show me a law where bestiality is legal, that also has a law that protects animals and I will show you where the loop holes are. would you rather have animals safe then fill your own self satisfaction. QUOTE When we say "we want bestiality legal" is because in some countries, you will be send to jail for: masturbating a dog or kissing him or sleeping in bed with him. They making a victimless crime illegal and punishing innocent people.making it illegal to kiss a dog, ok that is crazy. as well as the law of sleeping with a dog in the same bed. but again I will disagree about masturbating a dog.if the dog doesn't want to be masturbated would that fall under the category of ethical or unethical, well who knows because the law could never prove that the dog was displeased with your actions. there for the laws for making sex with animals legal and also to protect them is extremely flawed. I guess it is hard to explain what I am saying with more accuracy but that is just how I feel about it, rather than complicate the whole mess with rules and thousands of loop holes it would be more efficient to leave it as it lye.@dirtbiker2000I guess I live in a worst case scenario world, I would rather have the guaranteed protection of animals over my "orientation". the biggest legal prostitution I know about is the famous bunny ranch (what is the law that makes that legal though its technically sex for money which fall under the law of prostitution) its called loop holes. that is why the laws should not change.
QUOTE (salsav199 @ Jan 4 2011, 12:45 AM) QUOTE (Dog lover @ Jan 3 2011, 03:52 PM)In the countries where bestiality is legal, don't have that problem, because only ethical zoosex is legal, unethical zoosex is still illegal and punishable under animal abuse laws.I would have to disagree. how could you possibly as I said before prove that what was done was "ethical" or not. so simply because you think their are no problems, that is the furthes from the truth. their might be animals raped but the law cannot prosicute the aggressor because it falls under the "ethical" stand point. show me a law where bestiality is legal, that also has a law that protects animals and I will show you where the loop holes are. would you rather have animals safe then fill your own self satisfaction. QUOTE When we say "we want bestiality legal" is because in some countries, you will be send to jail for: masturbating a dog or kissing him or sleeping in bed with him. They making a victimless crime illegal and punishing innocent people.making it illegal to kiss a dog, ok that is crazy. as well as the law of sleeping with a dog in the same bed. but again I will disagree about masturbating a dog.if the dog doesn't want to be masturbated would that fall under the category of ethical or unethical, well who knows because the law could never prove that the dog was displeased with your actions. there for the laws for making sex with animals legal and also to protect them is extremely flawed. I guess it is hard to explain what I am saying with more accuracy but that is just how I feel about it, rather than complicate the whole mess with rules and thousands of loop holes it would be more efficient to leave it as it lye.@dirtbiker2000I guess I live in a worst case scenario world, I would rather have the guaranteed protection of animals over my "orientation". the biggest legal prostitution I know about is the famous bunny ranch (what is the law that makes that legal though its technically sex for money which fall under the law of prostitution) its called loop holes. that is why the laws should not change. Seriously Sal if you haven't read that report on legality I posted here you should give it a read and you'll realise that zoo laws are not there to protect animals. Not even slightly and if they were they would be worded AS cruelty laws and not as purely sexual laws. Or even laws which make it illegal to look at images. Its not protecting anything its just prosecuting more people. If we wanted to protect animals then we would do that. We wouldn't destroy a humans life and send him to prison for a couple of years for having sex with his deeply loved animal, usually euthanise his lover or take them from him while letting people who do hideous non sexual acts of cruelty off with a fine and being told they can't keep any animals for 5 years. Also a law that kills animals or takes them out of happy homes becasue they were in a loving sexual relationship with a human doesn't sound much like guaranteed protection to me. And as for the loopholes i've seen them spoken about here many times. Usually in the context that places with laws technically allowing human animal sexual relationships will usually still prosecute people for doing it under animal curelty laws instead. Whatever the law in this situtation there will be possible loopholes to exploit it.I would like to see you find me proof of a place where bestiality is legal and their are cases were animal welfare laws have made no effort to prosecute a person who has clearly and deliberately injured an animal sexually. This seems like the loopholes you were talking about but applied to animal sex.Most likely a change in the law would make no difference to the number of people having sex with animals as it wouldn't remove the gross factor and it wouldn't change moral opinions built in over generations. It also wouldn't protect people caught trespassing going after other peoples animals or people who harm animals for their own enjoyment. Basically to cut a long story short zoo laws are not their to protect animals and they play no role in protecting animals. Their singular goal is to help enforce someone elses morality on the rest of the world. Animal welfare and cruelty laws already cover acts of causing delberate harm. Do you remember there was a state that changed its law a few years ago because they were worried the current animal cruelty laws weren't enough.The reason the current laws weren't enough is because in a case where there was no sign of any injury to the animals in question the police couldn't prosecute with any real severity and preserve the moral righteousness they wanted to. So a bestiality law was needed to make sure these freaks could get what they deserved. Hows that for protecting animals.
"Basically to cut a long story short zoo laws are not their to protect animals and they play no role in protecting animals. Their singular goal is to help enforce someone elses morality on the rest of the world. "Wow thank you dirt biker i couldnt have said that better!That is exactly what most of the laws are.Valid concerns of animals safety could arise though.Are horrible things going on in denmark, and mexico around the clock?Probably not.
QUOTE (dirtbiker2000 @ Jan 3 2011, 07:16 PM) If we wanted to protect animals then we would do that. We wouldn't destroy a humans life and send him to prison for a couple of years for having sex with his deeply loved animal, usually euthanise his lover or take them from him you seem to be naive of the fact that some people do not love their animals like I. (would have said us but I see we have a difference in view) the fact that you are believing that everyone would never do sexual harm to a animal is child like in innocence but not what the real world consists of. QUOTE while letting people who do hideous non sexual acts of cruelty off with a fine and being told they can't keep any animals for 5 years. your stating as if I agree with all the laws that are set, as you said this is a sexual law and not a cruelty law so why are you even bringing that up. for shock value? I DO think cruelty laws should be more strict, so please do not try and assassinate my character in a wording that seems to portray a view that is not my own.QUOTE Basically to cut a long story short zoo laws are not their to protect animals and they play no role in protecting animals. Their singular goal is to help enforce someone elses morality on the rest of the world.I will half agree with you here.yes the law may influence peoples minds to think low of zoophiles, but I disagree that it doesn't help protect animals. the fact is that if your animals was raped you wouldn't think..."well its ok because if that guy is a zoo then its ok by me" simply put you would probably shoot the person on your property (guess what since their is no longer a animal sex law you can only charge him with trespassing) because as long as the animal doesn't show signs of physical trauma then it cannot be thrown under the animal cruelty law.now that guy is back in your yard the next day and everyday because he only get a 200 dollar fine for trespassing. now does that sound OK to you...I think not.EDIT: I would like to add that I am only looking to my states law against bestiality and have no knowledge towards other states or country's. so if you find offense to my posts then that is purely from your laws stand point.
As dirtbiker says, beastiality laws aren't there to protect animals - they're almost always grouped in with sex laws and not animal cruelty laws.In most developed countries, all of the sex laws are there for one reason; to protect people - all except for the beastiality laws.
QUOTE (salsav199 @ Jan 4 2011, 04:10 AM) QUOTE (dirtbiker2000 @ Jan 3 2011, 07:16 PM) If we wanted to protect animals then we would do that. We wouldn't destroy a humans life and send him to prison for a couple of years for having sex with his deeply loved animal, usually euthanise his lover or take them from him you seem to be naive of the fact that some people do not love their animals like I. (would have said us but I see we have a difference in view) the fact that you are believing that everyone would never do sexual harm to a animal is child like in innocence but not what the real world consists of. Actually Sal the naivety is 100% with you if you think making somethng illegal stops criminals from doing it. If you really think that then you really don't know humanity. Right now I am smoking a joint and posting on a site that hosts animal porn after a short car journey where I exceeded the speed limit several times. Legally I shouldn't have done any of those things. But then its obvious laws stop people doing illegal stuff I don't believe that no one would sexually harm an animal but I am not naive enough to think that if there is a law saying you will get into trouble if your caught having sex with an animal full stop that people who want to do this out of malice or a desire to cause pain will be stopped. I imagine that the majority of the sadists dispose of their evidence rather quickly as they know they will get into trouble regardless of whether zoo is legal or not. I brought up the point I did to highlight that there is already a fully applicable law to apply to those that cause harm to animals in any way. I was merely highlighting the unalienable fact that zoo laws are their to prosecute people for offending the majorities morality. They were never introduced with the ideal of decreasing animal cruelty and if you look through the situations where this law hasd been applied to people you will see that there is zero cases of decreasing suffering or cruelty and when this is the case there is a seperate welfare case. Zoo laws do nothing but further the impression we are all scumbags.As for your last point that is laughable. If someone is raping your animal then they will have to be trespassing, offending public decency, causing some kind of trauma (physically or mentally) etc etc so they will still be breaking the law. And here's another thing when you say rape do you mean that the animal or the owner has not consented? I am not advocating fencehopping here but there is every chance that an animal someone hops a fence to be with will consent to sex. If as zoo's we want to be able to say that animals can consent we then can't move the goalposts and say that consent only happens if the owner says so as that is not individual consent from the active parties. But then if the animal has consented it is not rape. Just a point to consider. Also consider this. Imagine if you phone the police because someone is snooping around your animals in the current anti zoo times. The police come and catch the person but the person tells the police they had evidence you had been molesting your animals and they were scared for their welfare. So police arrest you too, seize your computer etc etc and you end up fucked too. Or maybe they just take evidence from your animal to try and find out who has been doing the sexual assaults and that ends up incriminating you too. Do you think for 1 minute the police would let you get away with it? Do you think that law helps you and do you think your animals will prosper becasue of it.Just to finish up with this let me go back to your rape thing. To actually rape an animal puts you at risk. Maybe a small animal can be forced into it but with a large animal this would be very dangerous. I could hop a fence today and have sex with a horse and it would only be rape if I forced the horse to accept my advances. If she was accepting then it would not be rape, it would still be completely out of order for me to do it but it wouldn't be rape. What it seems to me that you are most concerned about it is legality would become a fence hoppers charter. Again I say read the legal paper I mentioned in my earlier post and you will see this is not the case due to the way the current laws work. If it is genuine rape then likely there will be signs of struggling or some sign of distress with our animal and in this case you have evidence for prosecution. I don't find offense with what your saying I am just trying to higlight to you the naivety and wishful thinking you seem to be approaching this situation with, a situation that see's innocent people and animals punished for offending societies morality.
Obviously one day it will be however probably not in our life times. My question is, will it be as much fun then???? For me it will still be as hot, legality will probly just take the edge off it
QUOTE (dirtbiker2000 @ Jan 4 2011, 07:51 AM) Actually Sal the naivety is 100% with you if you think making somethng illegal stops criminals from doing it. If you really think that then you really don't know humanity. Right now I am smoking a joint and posting on a site that hosts animal porn after a short car journey where I exceeded the speed limit several times. Legally I shouldn't have done any of those things. But then its obvious laws stop people doing illegal stuff if you are just going to continue to put word in my mouth then I find that there is no reason to speak any further about the subject matter. I also find it cute that you think marijuana is illegal (I am smoking right now. literal) and its perfectly legal for me to do so. maybe you are displeased with your states laws on bestiality (why is it marked as such and not zoo?) because their is no law against who or what you love, perhaps the only thing on your mind is sex. that's OK but I don't really care for it. (ya every so often I will indulge but I can live without it just as easily)(many are currently active and yet to be caught....*how did they do that? sarcasm*)maybe denying your self image and character is what your afraid of. self identity is the one and only thing most people look toward and find that is what gives them solace. (those people are weak by my standards.)the question is can you (whatever the question may be) put your emotions aside for the greater good. probably not (see as I say probably and dont manipulate my words to seem as if your saying it. I hold my integrity, try doing the same.)
Homosexuality has nothing in common with bestiality. So linking the two isn't appropriate. Why people keep trying to compare them is beyond me.
QUOTE (salsav199 @ Jan 4 2011, 08:02 PM) QUOTE (dirtbiker2000 @ Jan 4 2011, 07:51 AM) Actually Sal the naivety is 100% with you if you think making somethng illegal stops criminals from doing it. If you really think that then you really don't know humanity. Right now I am smoking a joint and posting on a site that hosts animal porn after a short car journey where I exceeded the speed limit several times. Legally I shouldn't have done any of those things. But then its obvious laws stop people doing illegal stuff if you are just going to continue to put word in my mouth then I find that there is no reason to speak any further about the subject matter. I also find it cute that you think marijuana is illegal (I am smoking right now. literal) and its perfectly legal for me to do so. maybe you are displeased with your states laws on bestiality (why is it marked as such and not zoo?) because their is no law against who or what you love, perhaps the only thing on your mind is sex. that's OK but I don't really care for it. (ya every so often I will indulge but I can live without it just as easily)(many are currently active and yet to be caught....*how did they do that? sarcasm*)maybe denying your self image and character is what your afraid of. self identity is the one and only thing most people look toward and find that is what gives them solace. (those people are weak by my standards.)the question is can you (whatever the question may be) put your emotions aside for the greater good. probably not (see as I say probably and dont manipulate my words to seem as if your saying it. I hold my integrity, try doing the same.) Sal i'm not trying to manipulate your words i'm just trying to actually even slightly understand how you genuinely think that the current law does anything good. Because it clearly doesn't. My posts have been clear and concise and you seem to be misinterpreting things in them.I have considered this matter from many angles and I just can't comprehend these negative sides your trying to find. And I think Weed is illegal becasue where I live its a class B illegal drug. So yes it is illegal here. Its illegal in most of Europe except Spain I think (its NOT actually legal in Netherlands). Actually I was under the impression that in the US Federal law took precedence over state law so there was no state where it was properly and completely legal. I watched a Nat Geo documentary the other day where they discussed this very problem.The reference to weed and speeding is I was highlighting to you that making something illegal does not stop it happening. This is where I was highlighting your naivety as you seemed to implying that zoo laws (something being illegal) stops criminals doing it, it clearly doesn't and it would be insane to try and say it does. And talking about putting words in your mouth you then turn around and accuse me of thinking with my cock. I'm just not naive or foolish enough to think that the laws against bestiality protect animals. It was never the intention of the laws to protect animals and it never will. I don't see what self image has got to do with anything, and in all honesty that part of your post read more like you blowing your own trumpet than anything else. I have no wish to tell everyone in real life that I am zoo as its not their business to know. I have a few close friends who know and I am happy with that. I am still a zoo regardless of who I tell and what I do so what self image are you reffering to. And do you know what, I hate the fact that people I know and speak to on this forum and other forums run the risk of having their lives destroyed from one tiny mistake. A mistake that can be as simple as not closing your laptop screen enough or leaving your curtain 2 inches open. I hate the fact that I could lose my entire livelihood and everything i've worked for because of one tiny slip up. I don't want to be blatant and public with my love, I just want to know my lovers, my friends and me can live without fear of legal reprecussions. Sal earlier you mentioned worse case scenarios so how about this. Someone you know somehow finds out or gets a strong hint about you. They decide to be a good citizen and phone the police. They come round, maybe they can't find any proof but I bet you would strugggle to prove anything. You may well likely get off in the end but by then your name is everywhere, your reputation ruined, job lost and maybe even your lover rehomed/killed in the time between the arrest and court case. Would you still stick up for the law then.EDIT: P.S. You accuse me of only thinking for myself and yet you also say that the laws against sex don't bother you as you are not active. How about that for selfish thinking. Screw the innocent people getting into trouble as it won't happen to me.You even say yourself that many active people are never caught. So what makes you think that the laws help catch more people who harm animals?
QUOTE (silkythighs @ Jan 4 2011, 11:06 PM) Homosexuality has nothing in common with bestiality. So linking the two isn't appropriate. Why people keep trying to compare them is beyond me. Well Silky you have already displayed your amazing ignorance of zoophilia so many times that the fact that you keep feeling the need to express the same baseless opinion is beyond me You don't understand it. We get that Silky don't worry.
Like 60% of the people on the forum are just into it for the sex with animals. They dont respect them or share any love for them. Knot me, fuck me, thats all what there about. It is because of them we have these laws put against us. I dont think our love will legal till those people are gone. Then our words can be spoken from the rest of the forum who do indeed love,charish and respect our four legged,hooved friends. Thats just in my words of the situation
QUOTE (briandude11 @ Jan 5 2011, 12:33 AM) Like 60% of the people on the forum are just into it for the sex with animals. They dont respect them or share any love for them. Knot me, fuck me, thats all what there about. It is because of them we have these laws put against us. I dont think our love will legal till those people are gone. Then our words can be spoken from the rest of the forum who do indeed love,charish and respect our four legged,hooved friends. Thats just in my words of the situation Definitely doesn't help our situation thats for sure. But if only the laws were there for that reason, at least then they would have been introduced to try and address a specific problem.
QUOTE (dirtbiker2000 @ Jan 4 2011, 04:07 PM) Sal i'm not trying to manipulate your words i'm just trying to actually even slightly understand how you genuinely think that the current law does anything good. Because it clearly doesn't. My posts have been clear and concise and you seem to be misinterpreting things in them.I have considered this matter from many angles and I just can't comprehend these negative sides your trying to find. And I think Weed is illegal becasue where I live its a class B illegal drug. So yes it is illegal here. Its illegal in most of Europe except Spain I think (its NOT actually legal in Netherlands). Actually I was under the impression that in the US Federal law took precedence over state law so there was no state where it was properly and completely legal. I watched a Nat Geo documentary the other day where they discussed this very problem.The reference to weed and speeding is I was highlighting to you that making something illegal does not stop it happening. This is where I was highlighting your naivety as you seemed to implying that zoo laws (something being illegal) stops criminals doing it, it clearly doesn't and it would be insane to try and say it does. And talking about putting words in your mouth you then turn around and accuse me of thinking with my cock. I'm just not naive or foolish enough to think that the laws against bestiality protect animals. It was never the intention of the laws to protect animals and it never will. I don't see what self image has got to do with anything, and in all honesty that part of your post read more like you blowing your own trumpet than anything else. I have no wish to tell everyone in real life that I am zoo as its not their business to know. I have a few close friends who know and I am happy with that. I am still a zoo regardless of who I tell and what I do so what self image are you reffering to. And do you know what, I hate the fact that people I know and speak to on this forum and other forums run the risk of having their lives destroyed from one tiny mistake. A mistake that can be as simple as not closing your laptop screen enough or leaving your curtain 2 inches open. I hate the fact that I could lose my entire livelihood and everything i've worked for because of one tiny slip up. I don't want to be blatant and public with my love, I just want to know my lovers, my friends and me can live without fear of legal reprecussions. Sal earlier you mentioned worse case scenarios so how about this. Someone you know somehow finds out or gets a strong hint about you. They decide to be a good citizen and phone the police. They come round, maybe they can't find any proof but I bet you would strugggle to prove anything. You may well likely get off in the end but by then your name is everywhere, your reputation ruined, job lost and maybe even your lover rehomed/killed in the time between the arrest and court case. Would you still stick up for the law then.EDIT: P.S. You accuse me of only thinking for myself and yet you also say that the laws against sex don't bother you as you are not active. How about that for selfish thinking. Screw the innocent people getting into trouble as it won't happen to me.You even say yourself that many active people are never caught. So what makes you think that the laws help catch more people who harm animals? you know DB I really like you, you actually challenge me like no other could in this forum. I was just having a little fun with anyone who would challenge my point of view.I would have to say that I can not really add anything to my previous posts to continue my view. this has been really fun, I love a good debate and you really brought it to the table. I was hopping to drag this out longer but I really can add anything more. as my debate teacher once told me "you are not out to change the mind of your opponent, you are out there to change the crowd" I am really delighted on how this went DB and thanks for the fun. (sorry if you took anything I said to literal. but barely no one would try and give a explanation as to why it would be wrong to make it legal. so I thought I would try.)weather you believe me or not I did truly enjoy our exchange. 10 for you.EDIT: damn first time losing a debate....I will be back for revenge soon
QUOTE (salsav199 @ Jan 5 2011, 12:45 AM) you know DB I really like you, you actually challenge me like no other could in this forum. I was just having a little fun with anyone who would challenge my point of view.I would have to say that I can not really add anything to my previous posts to continue my view. this has been really fun, I love a good debate and you really brought it to the table. I was hopping to drag this out longer but I really can add anything more. as my debate teacher once told me "you are not out to change the mind of your opponent, you are out there to change the crowd" I am really delighted on how this went DB and thanks for the fun. (sorry if you took anything I said to literal. but barely no one would try and give a explanation as to why it would be wrong to make it legal. so I thought I would try.)weather you believe me or not I did truly enjoy our exchange. 10 for you.EDIT: damn first time losing a debate....I will be back for revenge soon I had a feeling you were slightly playing devils advocate there so don't worry no hard feelings. I enjoyed myself too. Is good to get charged up about something occasionally as long as things stay civil I have genuinely considered the legal thing alot and have had a good luck at both sides of the coin. The paper on the laws I posted in another thread confirmed alot to me I already expected was true but its a shame to see it there in well researched black and white that the law is bascially just to protect morailty. I'd never done any debating before I started foruming but I had always loved a good argument But believe me I don't go down easy in an argument 10 for you too dude.
QUOTE (dirtbiker2000 @ Jan 4 2011, 04:54 PM) I have genuinely considered the legal thing alot and have had a good luck at both sides of the coin. The paper on the laws I posted in another thread confirmed alot to me I already expected was true but its a shame to see it there in well researched black and white that the law is bascially just to protect morailty. why did you think I was dodging those questions or picking words you posted to steer away from it. I was the one who posted the documents (formatted to text) of that on your topic and have read them thoroughly as well.I knew when confronted with that fact I had to try and detour it away and bring other things to light (but you had to just keep pushing the subject...LOL). I really love debate when I was a kid, having to defend something you may not really agree with was always a challenge but also fun. losing is also beneficial to the learning process. it also fun to get railed up in wait for the opponents counter post to try and turn it against him. though If I had enough time I could have drug it out for many posts, but I really do hate some of the laws that made no sense as to why they were made. (mutant animal babies, to protect the human from the animal)its deplorable.if I do get anymore ideas I will be back to post them.
QUOTE (salsav199 @ Jan 5 2011, 01:12 AM) if I do get anymore ideas I will be back to post them. And don't worry if I have time i'll be coming out with plenty of counter arguments too
At the risk of causing more tl;dr material, I believe legalizing/decriminalizing zoosex will only benefit the people who oppose homosex. The gay community has endured a lot of ridicule and violence over the years to reach the social acceptability not found 20 years ago. Nothing is more discouraging or offensive when the opponents ignore said social acceptability with arguments like "If we legalize marriage between homosexuals, it will soon allow people to marry animals or children. Where does it end?"Do I agree with this statement? Of course not. But someone with even a slight understanding of sociology or human behavior knows that it only takes two or three respected members to sway the opinion of thousands. If we finally allow homosexuals equal rights and move on to zoosexual rights within one or two generations, that argument will spring up. And if that crusade gets any form of success, it will blow up in the face of both zoosexuals and homosexuals. I'm all for equal rights, but to have zoosexual relationships legalized within any of our lifetimes (or those of our children) will have nothing but negative results for both parties
QUOTE (dirtbiker2000 @ Jan 4 2011, 07:09 PM) Well Silky you have already displayed your amazing ignorance of zoophilia so many times that the fact that you keep feeling the need to express the same baseless opinion is beyond me You don't understand it. We get that Silky don't worry. Well that was my first post in this thread, so I'm entitled to post my opinion. Whenever I see a thread linking homosexuality and zoophilia, I'm going to repeat my opinion that they have absolutely nothing in common.
QUOTE (silkythighs @ Jan 5 2011, 10:01 PM) QUOTE (dirtbiker2000 @ Jan 4 2011, 07:09 PM) Well Silky you have already displayed your amazing ignorance of zoophilia so many times that the fact that you keep feeling the need to express the same baseless opinion is beyond me You don't understand it. We get that Silky don't worry. Well that was my first post in this thread, so I'm entitled to post my opinion. Whenever I see a thread linking homosexuality and zoophilia, I'm going to repeat my opinion that they have absolutely nothing in common. Nothing at all except they are both inbuilt sexual behaviours that are different to normal ones. Absolutely no similarity at all. I mean they're as different as cheese and milk and I mean we all know they have absolutely nothing in common at all But then if your someone who has sex with animals out of desire and not because that is your basic sexual orientation you won't be able to understand this
QUOTE (dirtbiker2000 @ Jan 5 2011, 05:21 PM) Nothing at all except they are both inbuilt sexual behaviours that are different to normal ones. Absolutely no similarity at all. I mean they're as different as cheese and milk and I mean we all know they have absolutely nothing in common at all But then if your someone who has sex with animals out of desire and not because that is your basic sexual orientation you won't be able to understand this Then by your argument pedophilia is also similar to homosexuality, since that is also outside the norm. Pedophilia has nothing to do with homosexuality or zoophilia. Many straight men are into male dogs, this doesn't make them homosexual. There are even lesbians on this forum who have sex with male dogs. Also go to any national gay rights group and ask them if you can speak about the rights of zoophiles. I'm almost certain you'll be in for a rude awakening.
QUOTE (silkythighs @ Jan 5 2011, 11:39 PM) Homosexuality has nothing in common with bestiality. So linking the two isn't appropriate. Why people keep trying to compare them is beyond me.Homosexuality and zoosexuality share these in common:1-Normally done between consenting adults.2-Both are sexual orientations.3-Both are sexual minorities.4-Both are hated by... you know what.5-Both are considered immoral by a lot of people.6-Both are illegal in many places.7-Both are abnormal compared to heterosexuals.8-Both are discriminated.9-Both have relationship with animals.10-Both can adopt children (the zoo will probably have to omit that he/she is a zoo to avoid sex discrimination)The only difference I see, is that homosexuals can marry in a few places (Which is an irrelevant difference as we don't want to marry animals) and that human-animals are a bit smarter (which is also irrelevant as animals can still have relationships with humans with their "limited" intelligence)The differences are minimal, just like the differences between heterosexuality and homosexuality are minimal, no need to made a fussssss that they don't have anything in common. You don't see people making a fusssss when some one compares heterosexuality with homosexuality even that they are not the same (but share 90% of things in common)QUOTE (silkythighs @ Jan 5 2011, 11:39 PM)Then by your argument pedophilia is also similar to homosexuality, since that is also outside the norm. Pedophilia has nothing to do with homosexuality or zoophilia.If the pedophile is homosexual or zoosexual, in that case, they are almost the same with the tinny exception of the pedophile having an abnormally low age preference, where the average age preference for homosexuals and zoosexuals are animals of a similar age or older (thought older age preference is also seen as immoral)
QUOTE (Dog lover @ Jan 5 2011, 07:32 PM) QUOTE (silkythighs @ Jan 5 2011, 11:39 PM) Homosexuality has nothing in common with bestiality. So linking the two isn't appropriate. Why people keep trying to compare them is beyond me.Homosexuality and zoosexuality share these in common:1-Normally done between consenting adults.2-Both are sexual orientations.3-Both are sexual minorities.4-Both are hated by... you know what.5-Both are considered immoral by a lot of people.6-Both are illegal in many places.7-Both are abnormal compared to heterosexuals.8-Both are discriminated.9-Both have relationship with animals.10-Both can adopt children (the zoo will probably have to omit that he/she is a zoo to avoid sex discrimination)The only difference I see, is that homosexuals can marry in a few places (Which is an irrelevant difference as we don't want to marry animals) and that human-animals are a bit smarter (which is also irrelevant as animals can still have relationships with humans with their "limited" intelligence)The differences are minimal, just like the differences between heterosexuality and homosexuality are minimal, no need to made a fussssss that they don't have anything in common. You don't see people making a fusssss when some one compares heterosexuality with homosexuality even that they are not the same (but share 90% of things in common)QUOTE (silkythighs @ Jan 5 2011, 11:39 PM)Then by your argument pedophilia is also similar to homosexuality, since that is also outside the norm. Pedophilia has nothing to do with homosexuality or zoophilia.If the pedophile is homosexual or zoosexual, in that case, they are almost the same with the tinny exception of the pedophile having an abnormally low age preference, where the average age preference for homosexuals and zoosexuals are animals of a similar age or older (thought older age preference is also seen as immoral) Homosexuality isn't against the law. Gays are arguing now, for the right to legally marry. This issue deals with the institution of marriage itself. "Marriage is only between a man and a woman." is what gays are fighting against. It's not about gays not being able to express their orientations. Homosexuality as an orientation, can not be intelligently disputed. This just isn't the case with zoophilia. That's why the majority of gays wouldn't accept being compared with zoophiles, since their wants and desires have nothing to do with zoophilia.
QUOTE (silkythighs @ Jan 5 2011, 11:39 PM) QUOTE (dirtbiker2000 @ Jan 5 2011, 05:21 PM) Nothing at all except they are both inbuilt sexual behaviours that are different to normal ones. Absolutely no similarity at all. I mean they're as different as cheese and milk and I mean we all know they have absolutely nothing in common at all But then if your someone who has sex with animals out of desire and not because that is your basic sexual orientation you won't be able to understand this Then by your argument pedophilia is also similar to homosexuality, since that is also outside the norm. Pedophilia has nothing to do with homosexuality or zoophilia. Many straight men are into male dogs, this doesn't make them homosexual. There are even lesbians on this forum who have sex with male dogs. QUOTE Many straight men are into male dogs, this doesn't make them homosexual. There are even lesbians on this forum who have sex with male dogs.Well these people are split into two groups. Those who have sex for pleasure and enjoyment (people for whom the idea that zoophilia is an orientation is hard to comprehend) and those who do it from a deeper attraction. I think saying that straight men and lesbians can be into male dogs proves nothing except that 1) That zoosexuality when present with a desire to still have a human sexual relationship does not necessarily mean your animal desires will correspond with your human ones2) That the lines between sexuality are far far far from clear. But I never said that human sexual orientation had any effect on your tendencies within your zoo orientation so too bring this up in your reply proved or answered nothing.You also feel the desperate need to bring pedos into this so I will carefully answer your point.The basic set up that it is an abnormal sexual desire makes it the same as homosexuality, zoophilia and all the others, but the difference is in the many many details emerging during the application of this love, and its effects. When i'm less tired and hazy i'll post a better reply but Silky you have no new arguments to back up anything your saying more than when you have repeated the same arguments in other threads. Saying its obviously not an orientation because gays often don't support zoophilia is like saying meth isn't a drug because many people who drink alcohol would never try it.EDIT: QUOTE (Silky)Homosexuality isn't against the law.Actually Silky Homosexuality is still illegal in some places and in some others even where it is legal buggery/sodomy aren't so technically intercourse is out even if the freedom to say your in love is fine.
I am really bored so gathering all of silkys posts regarding this debate, I will try to compile them to a intelligent point of view, cross your fingers.--------------------------------------------------------------------------zoo and homosexuality are not the same. if they are the same then you are a p**o. homosexuality is excepted everywhere. tell your mom and dad and their is a 100% chance of them still loving you. animals are dumb and dont have feelings, their for you are dumb and must listen to me. I do not need this so called "proof" I am right and you are wrong. simple enough smileys for you.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------im so sorry...I have failed. it was really hard to write like this. the secret is to turn your common sense on off switch to off.but now that is over with. *click* [on] off
QUOTE (dirtbiker2000 @ Jan 5 2011, 05:21 PM) Nothing at all except they are both inbuilt sexual behaviours that are different to normal ones. Absolutely no similarity at all. I mean they're as different as cheese and milk and I mean we all know they have absolutely nothing in common at all Is that your argument as to why homosexuality is similar to zoophilia. Lots of sexual practices aren't accepted by society. Necrophilia and pedophilia also "exhibit sexual behaviors that are different to normal ones." So by your argument necrophilia and pedophilia are also similar to homosexuality Like some others, dirtbiker is a big talker here in this forum. But I'd love to see him get up in front of a gay group with his zoophilia agenda. Gays just want to be able to marry and have the same rights as heterosexuals. So linking there struggles with zoophilia is just not appropriate.
Are we seriously going through this shit again?
If something is illegal it must be good
I don't often do this these days, but for this mess, I'll make an exception....Every time this subject comes up it deteriorates into an Honor Roll Of Ignorance, with Palms. No country with its primary cultural roots in Judaism, Christianity, or Mohammedanism will EVER act to make this legal, because it has been linked in THE BOOK to Satanism, Witchcraft, and worship of the Goddess( by whatever name she chooses to be worshipped ). At the best of times such cultures will "look the other way", but at the worst of times Tar and Feathers will be the best one might expect...Don't believe this? Statistically, during the period of the Witch-hunting in Europe ( and yes, America, too ),circa 1400 to 1750, Modern Era, as many as a million people, mostly women, were killed for the practice of witchcraft. Even in the more primitive, less-enlightened Law Courts of those times, such practices could NOT be proven. It took Church Courts and faith-based trials to do the dirty work, and those churches did this work with glee....The Churches in the lands which are now the nation of Germany kept very good records, folks...they were proud of their record as destroyers of heresy and paganism. If other churches in Europe were even remotely close to those numbers, then my figure above is probably way low. And note please: European populations were being decimated periodically by plague during this period, often with little time to recover between waves, yet STILL they went to war on their wisewomen. So....show me how to take five or six thousand years of genuine Demonization out of our little hobby. I'm not holding my breath, y'all.... I'm sniffing the breeze for the scent of burnt pigeons.....
Allow me to point out that there were flaws in the arguments of both sides.In most modern advanced civilizations, homosexuality is not illegal. However, in some lesser developed countries it is still punishable by death. Also, since these laws are a state-by-state matter in the US, many state laws still prohibit homosexual intercourse. So to say homosexuality is 100% legal is far fetched.Gays are not ONLY fighting for the rights to marry. Gays are also fighting for the aforementioned laws to be overturned and they are fighting for general acceptance from the non-gay public.Even in our advanced civilization, homosexuality was serious business for the authorities to deal with. It was for many decades considered a mental sickness and done purely by choice. Often the consequences were fines, jail time, and a horrible reputation dogging you for the rest of your life.Flip the coin over...In most modern advanced civilizations, zoophilia is not illegal. However, in some lesser developed countries it is still punishable by death. Also, since these laws are a state-by-state matter in the US, many state laws prohibit bestiality. So to say zoophilia is 100% illegal is far fetched.Zoos are not all fighting for the rights to marry or have their animal partners considered as humans. Zoos are fighting for the aforementioned laws to be overturned and they are fighting for general acceptance from the non-zoo public.Even in our advanced civilization, zoophilia is still serious business for the authorities to deal with. It is being considered a mental sickness and done purely by choice. Often the consequences are fines, jail time, and a horrible reputation dogging you for the rest of your life.So, there are not actual laws governing zoophilia nor are there laws governing homosexuality. It's the sexual intercourse that these laws govern.I don't recall anyone suggesting we join the gay rights groups and try to get them to help us out. I do recall someone suggesting that the gays might be more open to empathize with us because they know what we've been through. Unfortunately in most cases even someone who has lived through the times where to be gay was a death sentence can not or will not understand what zoophilia actually is. No, zoophilia and homosexuality are not the same thing, but! But! They are not without similarities. I think these similarities are the reason some suggest that we could model a campaign after the gay rights movement. I for one am not that much of a dreamer. I do not expect bestiality to ever be accepted in any society, just like I know homosexuality is never going to be fully, 100% accepted in any society. And because the line between zoophilia and bestiality is so fine, I don't expect the general consensus to distinguish the two. Much like how the term homosexual seems to automatically imply sexual intercourse. Look up the term sometime...Homosexuality means a sexual attraction or preference to the same gender. No mention of physical intercourse. Now, zoophilia means a sexual attraction or preference for animals. No mention of physical intercourse there, either. Homosexual intercourse and bestiality are what are illegal in some/most states/provinces. Homosexuality and zoophilia, being non-tangible ideas which can not be governed, are not illegal. Unfortunately the terms are often used synonymously, and therein lies the problem.Okay?
QUOTE When Will Our Love Be Legal?Anyone here should live so long......... The best we can possibly hope for is less Death and Prison when caught.Keep those doors locked and blinds drawn.
QUOTE (briandude11 @ Jan 5 2011, 12:33 AM) Like 60% of the people on the forum are just into it for the sex with animals. They dont respect them or share any love for them. Knot me, fuck me, thats all what there about. It is because of them we have these laws put against us. I dont think our love will legal till those people are gone. Then our words can be spoken from the rest of the forum who do indeed love,charish and respect our four legged,hooved friends. Thats just in my words of the situation I think we should all be clear that there are 3 sorts of people with an interest in what I shall refer to as "animal sex", just as there are the same sort of people in most sexual orientations.1) Those who are in it for love, whereby the sex is largely as a a result of the affection felt2) Those who are in it for the sex3) The real undesirables, the sexua sadists who cause harm to the object(s) of their desire.Those in group (1) should be aware that the people in group (2) are:a. Generally on-side, and the people who are closest to understanding and accepting your orientationb. Very fond of animas. I, for one, am very attached to my cat - even if I don't 'love' him in the same way as I could love a human. I would never be cruel to an animal, or abuse it in any way.It's people in group (3) that you need to distance yourself from, the people who link animal sex with sadism in some people's minds - just as people thought that pederastry was synonymous with being gay, and so legalising homosexuality would suddenly mean that old men were free to go out and rape boys tured out not to be true, people should understand that all three groups aren't the same.As for thoe who point out that paedophillia could be compared to homosexuality and zoophillia, yes, perhaps it is an orientation where parallels can be drawn, but there is a simple diving line - paedophillia hurts people, whereas homosexuality and zoophillia don't.
QUOTE (silkythighs @ Jan 6 2011, 08:25 AM) QUOTE (dirtbiker2000 @ Jan 5 2011, 05:21 PM) Nothing at all except they are both inbuilt sexual behaviours that are different to normal ones. Absolutely no similarity at all. I mean they're as different as cheese and milk and I mean we all know they have absolutely nothing in common at all Is that your argument as to why homosexuality is similar to zoophilia. Lots of sexual practices aren't accepted by society. Necrophilia and pedophilia also "exhibit sexual behaviors that are different to normal ones." So by your argument necrophilia and pedophilia are also similar to homosexuality Yes they are as they are both abnormal sexual attractions. The differences are very obvious when you look deeper but as a general statement they are similar. QUOTE Like some others, dirtbiker is a big talker here in this forum. But I'd love to see him get up in front of a gay group with his zoophilia agenda. Yes because I have been very open about how we should join up with gays and fight for acceptance. Its incredible how many times I have said that gays completely understand zoo's and are 100% sympathetic to us. Oh actually I never have said any of those things or hinted at them. But then its harder for you to try and prove your non point if you focus on what I have actually said isn't it Silky. I'd like to see you get up in front of a totally zoo group and tell them how you understand their orientation better than them and how they could all revert to a "normal" sexual orientation if they really wanted too. QUOTE Gays just want to be able to marry and have the same rights as heterosexuals. So linking there struggles with zoophilia is just not appropriate.Well homosexuals in areas where it is no longer illegal and who have some type of basic legal protection already may well be fighting for different rights than zoo's would like, but thats because beyond the basic legal status of the physical expression of our love there are large differences between the two groups. But what about the gays who live in areas where it is still a capital offence to be gay. I can't imagine they care too much about having the same rights as heterosexuals but would simply rather not have to fear the serious reprecussions that would arise if they were caught.Jeep also made some good points to you but as usual you will likely ignore them and just sprout the same old stuff you always do. Or maybe more probably you'll just misrepresent what he has said in a vain attempt to make him look silly (like you have tried and failed to do to me several times).
QUOTE (mike14 @ Jan 6 2011, 11:19 AM) I think we should all be clear that there are 3 sorts of people with an interest in what I shall refer to as "animal sex", just as there are the same sort of people in most sexual orientations.1) Those who are in it for love, whereby the sex is largely as a a result of the affection felt2) Those who are in it for the sex3) The real undesirables, the sexua sadists who cause harm to the object(s) of their desire.Those in group (1) should be aware that the people in group (2) are:a. Generally on-side, and the people who are closest to understanding and accepting your orientationb. Very fond of animas. I, for one, am very attached to my cat - even if I don't 'love' him in the same way as I could love a human. I would never be cruel to an animal, or abuse it in any way. I generally agree with there being 3 classifications. I'll simplify my understanding of your groups for the purposes of my post by saying that they are:1) non-zoophiles who practice bestiality2) zoophiles (like myself)3) zoosadistsI agree that those in group 1 are generally understanding and accepting of those in group 2. I certainly have no problem with people in group 1, only group 3. I know plenty of people who consider themselves part of group 1 who are good people, love their dogs as pets, and accept me for being a zoophile. I can be friends, even close friends, with someone like that. I don't even mind if someone in group 1 doesn't understand zoophiles but can appreciate that whatever a zoophile feels is certainly valid. Some things are beyond my understanding too, so I just leave them be and accept that they make sense to other people. Like biochemistry. I don't understand it, but some people do and I believe them.Which brings me to what does bother me:When someone in group 1, who has admitted to not understanding those in group 2, belittles people in group 2 by claiming there is no group 2 at all, just people who are actually in group 1 but have "emotional issues" and imagine a group 2. Yes, that does seem incredibly intolerant and closed-minded and I certainly don't want anything to do with someone like that.
Heh. so very true. That's a pretty decent list of categories, I think. Naturally, the only one I 'truly' have issues with would be category 3 for the obvious reasons. Of course, that could probably cover the broad range of animal abuse/cruelty.The unfortunate thing is that people tend to be too easily manipulated by what people say. People are too willing and eager to believe something that they're told. And that's not always such a good thing.The most distinguishing kinds of things are religion and entertainment. Most of our learning comes from what we're told throughout our lives. Probably because it's a lot easier than doing research and verifying information yourself. But that leaves a lot of room for error and purposeful misguidance when someone accepts someone's word as being true.As such, many of the worlds primary religions that still exist that were formed in the Europe and Middle Eastern regions all have relatively similar philosophies and teachings. And as has been said, in most cases, the religions that have animals as being lesser beings with no souls that were placed here for our will, also have things in it condemning sex with animals. However, even in the Bible itself, for instance has 'very, very' little about the subject directly. But as is so easily done in literature that is complex in understanding, has various interpretations to it.Though, people equally accept things that are in the entertainment business because people assume that they must be right without actually verifying it.Before I get too off-topic though, it all wraps up with the fact that people fear that which they do not understand. This has been said time and again. And it really holds true. Most people just don't understand anything about the subject except for what's been told to them either directly or indirectly. The same was true though with homosexuals though. The more people know about it, the less they're likely to fear it.Unfortunately, as it's illegal in many places, it's not a very widely-discussed subject.The part about zoophilia and bestiality that most keep arguing about is about lack of consent with an animal. However, most people who talk about this have no idea what they're talking about it. Most haven't studied animal psychology and ethology. They just go based on assumptions from what they've previously been told. But then people also tend to completely selectively forget all the other things that humans use animals for that doesn't require their consent, yet (depending on the area/region) most are fine with it. Breeding, use as a test subjects, use as meat. I'm sure there are other categories of things I'm missing. These are but a fewNaturally, the first of those subjects is the easiest to compare for us seeing as how it's absolutely acceptable to force a female animal to breed whether they want to or not, yet if you replace the male with that of a human and all of a sudden it's an abomination of nature (according to many)?But that's not even what zoophilia is about. It's about a human's emotions towards an animal. Sure an animal isn't going to feel the 'same' emotions as us. They're not human. But that doesn't mean that an animal is incapable of feeling happiness or sadness or anger. These are all basic emotions that exist in most animals. Well, at least mammals perhaps. So, until science can further show people more widely just how animals 'do' think and act, people will just assume that a person is taking advantage of the animal because they're incapable of understanding whats happening to them and that they're incapable of consenting to whats going on.I'd love to see people be more informed about this subject, but people are naturally fairly close-minded, and it's a pain to get it otherwise. Homosexuality has been in the spotlight for over 30 years now and even that's still just going a small pace at a time for the most part. It's always a risk of trying to push your understanding against someone else and those that push back that either don't agree with you or simply won't accept it.Anyways. I didn't intend on writing this much. Just kinda happens. I just keep going on and on. heh. Hope this might add a little bit of insight or idea to the subject.
QUOTE (silkythighs @ Jan 6 2011, 01:06 AM)Homosexuality isn't against the law. Gays are arguing now, for the right to legally marry. This issue deals with the institution of marriage itself. "Marriage is only between a man and a woman." is what gays are fighting against. It's not about gays not being able to express their orientations. Of 195 countries, being homosexual is actually illegal in 81 countries and in 7 you get death penalty.So yea, in some places if they find you are homosexual you will lose your job, family, end up in jail or a mental institution or killed by an angry mob. So don't say where are not the same, the differences are minimal.QUOTE (silkythighs @ Jan 6 2011, 01:06 AM)Homosexuality as an orientation, can not be intelligently disputed. This just isn't the case with zoophilia. That's why the majority of gays wouldn't accept being compared with zoophiles, since their wants and desires have nothing to do with zoophilia.Is almost the same, they and us share the same desires (except the one of getting married)QUOTE (lionmax @ Jan 6 2011, 11:00 AM)If something is illegal it must be good Killing homosexual is legal in IRAN, many laws exist and have no logical reasons behind them. There are horrible laws out there.QUOTE (mike14 @ Jan 6 2011, 06:19 PM)As for thoe who point out that paedophillia could be compared to homosexuality and zoophillia, yes, perhaps it is an orientation where parallels can be drawn, but there is a simple diving line - paedophillia hurts people, whereas homosexuality and zoophillia don't.Actually, the 3 sexual orientations are harmless (if they never act sexually on other living creature)The sex act from the pedophiles are always harmful.The sex acts from homosexuals or zoosexuals, may or not be harmful as there are homosexuals and zoosexuals that do sexual crimes. So yea, homosexuals and zoosexual some times hurt people (I'm just pointing that out as seem to believe they never do)
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QUOTE (Phiner @ Jan 7 2011, 05:25 AM) Heh. so very true. That's a pretty decent list of categories, I think. Naturally, the only one I 'truly' have issues with would be category 3 for the obvious reasons. Of course, that could probably cover the broad range of animal abuse/cruelty.The unfortunate thing is that people tend to be too easily manipulated by what people say. People are too willing and eager to believe something that they're told. And that's not always such a good thing.The most distinguishing kinds of things are religion and entertainment. Most of our learning comes from what we're told throughout our lives. Probably because it's a lot easier than doing research and verifying information yourself. But that leaves a lot of room for error and purposeful misguidance when someone accepts someone's word as being true.As such, many of the worlds primary religions that still exist that were formed in the Europe and Middle Eastern regions all have relatively similar philosophies and teachings. And as has been said, in most cases, the religions that have animals as being lesser beings with no souls that were placed here for our will, also have things in it condemning sex with animals. However, even in the Bible itself, for instance has 'very, very' little about the subject directly. But as is so easily done in literature that is complex in understanding, has various interpretations to it.Though, people equally accept things that are in the entertainment business because people assume that they must be right without actually verifying it.Before I get too off-topic though, it all wraps up with the fact that people fear that which they do not understand. This has been said time and again. And it really holds true. Most people just don't understand anything about the subject except for what's been told to them either directly or indirectly. The same was true though with homosexuals though. The more people know about it, the less they're likely to fear it.Unfortunately, as it's illegal in many places, it's not a very widely-discussed subject.The part about zoophilia and bestiality that most keep arguing about is about lack of consent with an animal. However, most people who talk about this have no idea what they're talking about it. Most haven't studied animal psychology and ethology. They just go based on assumptions from what they've previously been told. But then people also tend to completely selectively forget all the other things that humans use animals for that doesn't require their consent, yet (depending on the area/region) most are fine with it. Breeding, use as a test subjects, use as meat. I'm sure there are other categories of things I'm missing. These are but a fewNaturally, the first of those subjects is the easiest to compare for us seeing as how it's absolutely acceptable to force a female animal to breed whether they want to or not, yet if you replace the male with that of a human and all of a sudden it's an abomination of nature (according to many)?But that's not even what zoophilia is about. It's about a human's emotions towards an animal. Sure an animal isn't going to feel the 'same' emotions as us. They're not human. But that doesn't mean that an animal is incapable of feeling happiness or sadness or anger. These are all basic emotions that exist in most animals. Well, at least mammals perhaps. So, until science can further show people more widely just how animals 'do' think and act, people will just assume that a person is taking advantage of the animal because they're incapable of understanding whats happening to them and that they're incapable of consenting to whats going on.I'd love to see people be more informed about this subject, but people are naturally fairly close-minded, and it's a pain to get it otherwise. Homosexuality has been in the spotlight for over 30 years now and even that's still just going a small pace at a time for the most part. It's always a risk of trying to push your understanding against someone else and those that push back that either don't agree with you or simply won't accept it.Anyways. I didn't intend on writing this much. Just kinda happens. I just keep going on and on. heh. Hope this might add a little bit of insight or idea to the subject. Very informative thank you. mares
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