A word from our sponsors...
Please help keep this site free by visiting our site sponsors - click on the banned below and have a look at their sites.
Please help keep this site free by visiting our site sponsors - click on the banned below and have a look at their sites.
i thought about bringing a stray from a park the other day but thought twice about it. is it dangerous and is it going to far
IMO that wouldn't be a wise thing to do.Besides of possibly diseases you might get,how would you tell the dog to leave your home..? Been there almost done that - and I don't think I ever will question my decision.Dogs are not for one night stands
I've done it, over 30 different ones, lost count, no diseases so far, got bit once. - oldk9luvr
This is a touchy question anyway.In my opinion screwing a doggy and then put his ass back on the streets is nothing but..cruelty.That is abuse
Please help keep this site free by visiting our site sponsors - click on the banned below and have a look at their sites.
QUOTE (BitchFool @ Aug 25 2004, 11:08 AM) This is a touchy question anyway.In my opinion screwing a doggy and then put his ass back on the streets is nothing but..cruelty.That is abuse I have to agree. It's just kinda mean to take in a dog, warm him up and give him pleasure, just to toss him back out the door when you're done. You're just using the animal, then, and not having a relationship with it.
Most of my 105 different dogs that I've had, have been strays. Some of them I've done time and time again due to their location. Fenced business or such. Some were one night stands. But out of all of them, never had a problem with anything. A few growled at first, but once they realized what was going on, they got horny and was all for it.
Erm, well i dont think i would. I just couldnt stand to give one of those poor dogs warmth, love and pleasure and then put them out again.On the other hand we have to see the other side of the coin. Im pretty sure they dont give much for us. Somehow i even think they see us also as a one night stand (or something similar)! I've read on other boards of people who have took in and adopted streys and most of the time the dogs tried to get away again, no matter what the people did.We create the laws and rules of morality but dogs dont care much for them so i think they see not much wrong if someone gives them some pleasure. But then, what if they want to stay? Or come back over and over again - and not only for sex
I agree with the sentiment of most thus far - a dog is not just for sex, the same as a puppy is not just for xmas.Having been used myself by someone for sex, when they wanted, in my only relationship, i know first-hand what it is like to be given a a little affection and then 'tossed away' when the person has gotten what they want.If you want to be humped get a suction-cup dildo and ride away until your done.If you want to hump a critter just to get your rocks off, buy an inflatable animal - they make sheep, pigs and cows now. Then just play mp3's of animal sounds or mpegs of zoo pron, just don't take advantage of something just because you can.Karma will eventually catch up.
Please help keep this site free by visiting our site sponsors - click on the banned below and have a look at their sites.
You all were very nice about trying to explane why not to pick up a stray that is prob confused and lonely just to bang him or her. I totally agree, it is pure animal abuse and missuse.. JUST SAY NO!!!!!!
Personally I would never do it. AS horny as I am most of the time I try to have some limits. I do not want to pass judgement on those that would pick up a stray but I would pass on the opertunity.
I never would. To me, love with a dog, is something special. It's like this - I wouldn't pick up a male of female prositute either. Love with a human is special, and its the same with a creature.Also the stray might not be a stray, and I don't mess around with othe rpeople's animals like that - to me, it's the same as messing around with somebody else's husband ... I've strict values like that, may seem stupid, but it's me.
well if were a poor dog on the street with nothing to lose wouldnt you injoy 1 night of warmth and fun. or just go on with nothing and no fun.
QUOTE (Dew4eva @ Aug 31 2004, 12:03 AM) well if were a poor dog on the street with nothing to lose wouldnt you injoy 1 night of warmth and fun. or just go on with nothing and no fun. I'd go on with nothing and no fun. I have a little something called self-control. I know when I should or should not have sex with something. Using an animal is not something I plan to do any time soon. I've been used by people too often myself. I know what it feels like, and it's not fun in the slightest.
QUOTE (Dew4eva @ Aug 31 2004, 07:03 AM) well if were a poor dog on the street with nothing to lose wouldnt you injoy 1 night of warmth and fun. or just go on with nothing and no fun. QUOTE screwing a doggy and then put his ass back on the streetsIs that fun? Look,strays are not looking for sex with you,they want something else in the first place."Nothing to lose" you say >> for a stray dog,that "nothing" is his/her life,didn't you know??
Well, perhaps not out and out strays as such, more the case of a dog I've not seen before, or after! I have had sex with various 'local' dogs that I've never seen again. And contrary to a few of the comments above, I've never found much difficulty in arousing their interest! Dogs are remarkably intuitive towards humans and they instinctively know whether a stranger can be trusted or not, mostly by tone of voice, body language and scent. If you approach a strange dog carefully but confidently, and speak to it with a warm and friendly tone of voice, the chances are that the dog will show an interest in you and quite happily let you pet and stroke him. Of course, it will take a little while for the dog to relax in your company, but if you keep speaking softly and stroking him, it's amazing just what a dog will let you do.Some of my best experiences have been with dogs like these. The added thrill of being able to attract a strange dog into having sex with you is fantastic! Tess
Not me, I'm one that would want to get to know the animal and gain its trust and love before even attempting such a thing. I don't believe in the one night stand thing
Please help keep this site free by visiting our site sponsors - click on the banned below and have a look at their sites.
Doing strays is not advisable for many reasonFirst as many said it is just not right to give wrong sense of security and love just to have sex with it and put it back on the streets. It is just like pulling a beggar (man/women) of the streets give them some money just to screw with them and put them back on the streets.Second the risk of diseases if far too high. Std viruses have been studies to live in the stray's long enough to transmit diseases to the next person that has sex with it. Suppose a person with aids has had sex with it, you unknowingly have sex with it then chances are that you will be infected by AIDs without even know. Do you want to take chances with your life just for a moment of fun then you would be better of going to a prostitue than a dog atleast you have little chances of spotting a AIDs infected person but with dogs you just cant tell.Thirdly since there is not much bond with the animal and because you know nothing about its temperment there are chances for it to turn violent at any given point of time. It might not be in ease, it might be painful or it might just confused whatever you risk serious injuries.Lastly How could you enjoy having sex in fear of the above things. The dog might have sat on its own shit, might have visited garbage could you have a good oral with these thoughts? And dogs are not sex toys to use and throw nor are they born to give you pleasure so if you intend to have sex with it why dont you adopt it and show affection and love then you can have fun with the animal. I feel this is the only right way. It has been described Beastiality is a sin...I dont believe in it, but this certainly is a sin to use a stray to supress your sexual desires.
I wouldnt...I would want to know and love one before I would try it. Like a human. Plus with a stray there is too much risk of injury.
I would agree with Tessa... it is ok with me.
Please help keep this site free by visiting our site sponsors - click on the banned below and have a look at their sites.
Seems people are putting a lot of human emotion into this topic.Last time I checked most dogs that have sex with other dogs don't have loving, trusting, caring sharing relationships with their K9 partners. Dogs breed, a bitch in heat is a bitch in heat.Having said that, personally while the idea of doing a stray / local dog appeals to me. Taking a dog of the street that is not yours is plain wrong. You have no idea how your action may effect the dog or it's relationship with his / her human partners.As a teenager I did let a local Sheppard that wondered into our yard when no one was home mount me. And let me tell you he need no more encourgement that for me to get down on all fours in front of him. So those that think a full functional male dog wont happily jump on board are maybe a little incorrect.Brindle
So hang on... a dog is on the street. He's either going to get picked up by the pound and (*shudder*) most likely put to sleep, or he's going to get hit by a car, or he's going to starve to death... And picking him up for a few hours, giving him some food, some attention, and yes, some sex -- that's worse than letting him stay out on the streets -- possibly starving, possibly being injured or killed, definitely being alone and possibly afraid?That's just crazy talk. The sex only makes it somehow "bad" if it's non-consensual, or you're stealing someone's dog but pretending you're just "borrowing" a stray. Now THAT is wrong, but not because it's sexual -- because it's theft, or abuse. Frankly, "borrowing" a stray from the streets for a while is doing it a kindness, even if that kindness isn't completely self-interest free. Yes, it's probably better to try to find him/her a good place to stay (board him/her while you search for the owners, call the pound, etc), but in the end, anything that you can do with him --**consensually** -- will almost definitely be MUCH better than what will certainly happen to him NON-consensually out on the streets.Frankly, I wish people would be a little less f*cking preachy about who can sleep with whom or what and when. Have we all forgotten that that kind of moralisitic "I know what's best for you, and I'll tell you who you can sleep with and when" kind of thinking that got us into this sad predicament to begin with?So what if it's not the beginning of a lifelong, loving, romantic relationship? Sex is wonderful when it's part of a long-term relationship, but like it or lump it, it isn't always that way. And when it's not part of a lifelong relationship, it's not my call, nor your call, nor anyone else's call to say that that's not OK, as long as the involved parties all agree about what's going on.To be clear: as long as it's completely mutually consensual, who I or you or anyone else sleeps with is NOBODY ELSE'S DAMNED BUSINESS. Now back on track: when you pick up strays for this, for the love of all that's holy, be safe people. Don't get bitten. Don't hurt the animal. Do NOT intimidate or force it into doing anything it's not showing a clear and unquestionable inclination to do on its own (mounting, for sex, and so on). And DO try to find the animal's rightful owners or at least a local (hopefully no-kill) shelter when you're done.
Thanks atomx, you got a ten vote for saying it right.
QUOTE (atomx @ Feb 28 2005, 08:41 AM) So hang on... a dog is on the street. He's either going to get picked up by the pound and (*shudder*) most likely put to sleep, or he's going to get hit by a car, or he's going to starve to death... And picking him up for a few hours, giving him some food, some attention, and yes, some sex -- that's worse than letting him stay out on the streets -- possibly starving, possibly being injured or killed, definitely being alone and possibly afraid?That's just crazy talk. The sex only makes it somehow "bad" if it's non-consensual, or you're stealing someone's dog but pretending you're just "borrowing" a stray. Now THAT is wrong, but not because it's sexual -- because it's theft, or abuse. Frankly, "borrowing" a stray from the streets for a while is doing it a kindness, even if that kindness isn't completely self-interest free. Yes, it's probably better to try to find him/her a good place to stay (board him/her while you search for the owners, call the pound, etc), but in the end, anything that you can do with him --**consensually** -- will almost definitely be MUCH better than what will certainly happen to him NON-consensually out on the streets.Frankly, I wish people would be a little less f*cking preachy about who can sleep with whom or what and when. Have we all forgotten that that kind of moralisitic "I know what's best for you, and I'll tell you who you can sleep with and when" kind of thinking that got us into this sad predicament to begin with?So what if it's not the beginning of a lifelong, loving, romantic relationship? Sex is wonderful when it's part of a long-term relationship, but like it or lump it, it isn't always that way. And when it's not part of a lifelong relationship, it's not my call, nor your call, nor anyone else's call to say that that's not OK, as long as the involved parties all agree about what's going on.To be clear: as long as it's completely mutually consensual, who I or you or anyone else sleeps with is NOBODY ELSE'S DAMNED BUSINESS. Now back on track: when you pick up strays for this, for the love of all that's holy, be safe people. Don't get bitten. Don't hurt the animal. Do NOT intimidate or force it into doing anything it's not showing a clear and unquestionable inclination to do on its own (mounting, for sex, and so on). And DO try to find the animal's rightful owners or at least a local (hopefully no-kill) shelter when you're done. Very compelling... I play with a neighbors dog from time to time but I know he has a good home. Never done a "stray".
I know me though.... I'd have it a cleaned up, named, shots and sleeping in the bed with me. Couldn't be intimate than kick him to the curb...
Yes I agree most of here, one night stand isnīt for me.
Please help keep this site free by visiting our site sponsors - click on the banned below and have a look at their sites.
And that's absolutely fine too -- my point wasn't that "everybody should be doing strays" but that there's absolutely nothing ethically wrong with it as long as you're not stealing or abusing the animal (which has nothing to do with strays and everything to do with common freaking sense!)Personally, I'd think twice about "doing" a stray because of what Alter_ego hinted at -- maybe not safe and/or clean. But it's not my place (or anyone else's) to judge someone who does this.Alter, frankly I think you should go with your neighbor's dog. You're not going to abduct him, right? Just give him a couple hours of fun... Heck you could probably even do it legitimately if you got permission to walk him once in a while (and there are a million excuses to do that!)
While I've never done anything sexually with a dog, my wife has. She would definitely do a stray. In fact we almost got the chance once. We were returing after doing some shopping around town. We were on a back road near our home with no houses or stores in the immediate area when we noticed a dog alone. My wife was active with our male English sheepdog, so when I slowed down after passing the dog, my wife knew exactly what I was thinking. We both got out and waited fror the dog to catch up to the car. He came close enough for us to see he was male, but we couldn't get him to get close enough. My wife tried approaching him, but he'd always back away. We gave up after a while. My wife was definitely prepared to jerk him off or something if the dog had cooperated.
Please help keep this site free by visiting our site sponsors - click on the banned below and have a look at their sites.
I have had the opportunity to rescue two in heat stray bitches. In both cases I was able to locate the owners and return them. I had one of them for almost a week before locating the owner. During that time I had sex with her several times. The other one I only had for two days, but I had sex with her three times, before I found the owner. By all indications, both the dogs and I enjoyed the encounters. In this case doing a stray was a good thing on both sides.
In light of some of the above posts, how about this question. Would you take a stray in for a night, or a few hours, or whatever, and feed it etc and then either release it or take it to a shelter? Is it just the sex that makes it bad? While long-term relationships are best, we are talking about partners here that don't have quite the same emotional depth and social considerations regarding sex that you or I might (admittedly probably not speaking for all people here). I wouldn't hesitate to enjoy a stray and give them some good feelings, assuming they were ok with it and were reasonably healthy-looking, etc. I think I probably would take them to a shelter or try to find the owners rather than turn them out on the street, but I personally see nothing wrong with briefly operating under the same values system of one's partner (i.e. as much sex as possible).
I think I would do a stray Preferably a male in that case. It'd be nice to let them have fun, though I do understand the point of one night stands and putting them out in the morning. It is possible that he may return alone again the day/night after, he may even bring his beast buddies along as well MMM Kinky and cute idea I almost had a stray bitch once, I was out fencehopping at a friend's (of my parents) stable and coming back through a forest this bitch came up from nowhere. She was lusty as she really wanted to ride and do the dirty. Sadly it was middle of winter and I put my raincoat down and tried but it was mega dark and I had no idea about K9 anatomy so the only thing that happened was that I went down on all fours and she went up behind me and started to ride, and she got into ride frenzy as my hand and fingers rubbed against her vulva.It was cold and getting very late so I had to return home but she followed almost home. I did try and get her to come all the way but she didn't.It was a very nice experience. It is poossible that she did have an owner waiting fur her, which most strays don't.I agree Akitas4me, is it so bad, maybe even give him/her a bath as well, make them feel good. true they may have house guests staying which a bath can deal with.I'd not feel bad about letting them feel fun fur a few hours, though I think it'd be more fur a Whole Nighter Svadilfari Stray Dog Slut Stallion
Humans have one night stands all of the time. Not that it's great, but humans have a higher thought capacity and they enjoy it, so why can't a dog do the same?I think the main reason why people are opposed to it is the idea of taking a dog, feeding it, washing it, sexing it up, then releasing it back into the same environment it had been rescued from before, is sort of cruel. I can see the view of giving someone a piece of heaven then sending them back to Hell. But dogs can't make the comparison between getting fucked and living out on the street. I'm sorry, but I don't think that they are smart enough. I say this: if it makes you happy, and it makes the dog happy, then it isn't hurting anyone. But I wouldn't just dump the dog back out, I'd at least bring it to the animal shelter. I can imagine what it would be like in an apartment where dogs aren't allowed. I could see why picking up a stray would be necessary to fulfill those... desires.
ok folks - I am really struggling with this topic - here is a little about me: I am in a current situation where I can not have a pet -and being a gay male (not that being a gay male is exclusive to my point ==> there is little chance that a pet owner is going to "share' thier pet with me -which is TOTALLY UNDERSTANDABLE. I am inexperienced and certainly not ready or qualified to comment on this subject -but there are still some questions in my mind -so hopefully these things can be considered in future post:1. are you really rescuing a pet by taking it to the shelter -isn't the chanced that no one will adopt and it will be killed high? rephrased ==> does taking a stray to the shelter = a death sentence? Is the pets chances of survival greater if you just let it continue to roam ? (this is posed reguardless if you think it is ok to have sex with it or not first) 2. Is there a difference betwen taking in a stray and "having fun" and "fence hopping" -errr "having fun" with someone elses pet who has a loving home and is not in jeopardy of "being used" and then "thrown out to uncertainty"?I am in a very uncomfortable situation right now ie: no pet and no possibilities at the moment of having one (condo rule and partner who doesn't know of my interest) -sometimes (most of the time) it's painful -I am watching this thread very carefully. THESE ARE QUESTIONS THAT HAVE BEEN EATING AT MY MIND. THEY ARE POSTED WITH THE HOPES OF SEEING OTHER PEOPLES INSIGHTS SO THAT I CAN MAKE DECISIONS IN THE FUTURE THAT I WONT REGRET...
does anyone think from a dogs point of view, most answers seem to be what people think, we have our moralsdogs get it when they smeel something on heat, will fight for it, chase it and run away for it, but to them thats all it iswe talk of one night stands and love, at the end of the day they are dogs, the love they give us is the same as what they would give another pack animalone night stands with dogs, dont they themselves do it whereever or whenever they can, and i dont seem them sitting down the pub buying drinks and trying to chat the girl up first
Please help keep this site free by visiting our site sponsors - click on the banned below and have a look at their sites.
Marcus,This is *exactly* why I get so frustrated with the anthropomorphizing of animals around here. As much as we may love animals, they *aren't human* and don't pretend to be. When we try to draw distinctions like love versus lust, one night stands versus "committed relationships," and monogamy versus screw-whatever-moves, we're not actually talking about the animals at all. They don't give a rat's -- your average dog or horse will happily screw any available female that seems to be interested and not give a second thought about whether the female will "respect him in the morning."It's all just head games that WE are playing. We condemn and shout and point fingers, but the animals don't give a rat's. Someone named William something or other said it well "a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."In the end, follow the basic precepts of morality: DO NO HARM. Forcing a creature to do something against its consent is harm, so you must make sure the animals consent, too.But as long as you're not abducting someone's animal, or taking a dog to a euthanizing shelter out of laziness, or beating or forcing the animal -- as long as what happens is completely CONSENSUAL and doesn't lead to HARM to the dog that would not already be happening to it, go for it. It's nobody else's damned business, beyond that.
I have -- many times. Of course, that was during a period of my life when I was a stray just like them, though. Nowadays I live in a house just like most other human beings. There are still a few neighborhood strays, around (although I think most of them belong to my neighbors), but I don't have any sexual feeling for them.
i would say it all depends on whether or not you're into one night stands ... because thats pretty much what it is..
I'm so glad to read these last few posts on this topic. While I fully understand that some really want to relate with the animals or want to believe they relate with us, they are animals. Regarding the original questions, would you have sex with a stray, i think yes. Like the last few posts state, while one night stands aren't the preferred maybe, humans do it all the time, and it often works for all. Like atomx, I also "get so frustrated with the anthropomorphizing of animals around here." I think we try to put our values into teh dogs.. but in the end, I think I would try a stray... given of course, precaution was taken, it wasn't abuse or painful and care was given to cleanliness. Be safe, be kind for mutual satisfaction.
I would certainly do a stray if given the opportunity. Since I'm no longer active, the only way I could experience it again would be with a stray. If I was home alone and happened to see a male dog in my backyard. Yes I would try to lure him in and try to initiate a sexual encounter. I wouldn't go out in my car and snatch a dog off the street or anything, but if an opportunity presented itself, yes I would have sex with a stray.However I really feel this subject is almost irrelevant If you live in suburbia, the chances of finding a fully intact male or female dog would be almost impossible. All shelters require spading and neutering, and most dog owners now do this on the advice of veterinarians. Perhaps in more rural areas, your chances would improve.
QUOTE (Atnog @ Mar 13 2005, 06:01 PM) i would say it all depends on whether or not you're into one night stands ... because thats pretty much what it is.. I fully agree -- doing a stray is *exactly* like a one-night stand. As grown-ups, we (hopefully) realize that one-night stands are unfulfilling in a number of emotional and mental ways. In a way, it's just like masturbating using a human being as the receptacle.But one-night stands can be very sexually fulfilling, whether society frowns upon them or not. They can, simply put, feel good. This is why people still have them, despite all the moralists telling us we'll go to hell if we have anything besides heterosexual, monogamous, married sex.And another fact is pretty basic; not everyone has the *luxury* of a long-term relationship. Owning a pet is a pretty big commitment that I take rather seriously. And I'd rather not own a pet that I won't be able to give the love and attention it deserves, than own one just for selfish reasons and neglect it.Some may think that "doing a stray" or borrowing someone's dog for fun is the most immoral thing you can do. But I firmly believe that those human notions of sexual propriety are completely lost upon the animals themselves -- as long as they're being treated kindly and not being forced, they seem to be happy to hump whatever is willing. And, if the option is owning but neglecting an animal or having a male's testicles removed just because it becomes inconvenient when he hops up when the neighbors are around -- or worse, just having an animal that's no longer got that "new cat smell" put to sleep when it ceases to amuse -- if those are the alternatives, I think doing a stray might just be the most moral thing you can do.Just my opinion, of course, but I'm a rather opinionated bastard, so there.Sxygirl, again your icon is taunting me.
Please help keep this site free by visiting our site sponsors - click on the banned below and have a look at their sites.
I'd have to say that shit is pretty wrong....bringing an animal in then just throwing it right back out. Except I do that personally.....if I ever find a stray something I generally feed it, then put it out the front door, if it stays there for 15 minutes begging to be let in, it's mine (if it's a real stray). Or I'll find a home for it.....but seriously, having sex with an animal just for one night I find is pretty wrong (I don't do one night stands)
How would you like to have someone grab you and use you for his/her own sexual gratification and then toss you out the door? That sounds like rape to me.In my mind, doing a stray is no different. If there is no love, it is just lust.
i really cant understand all this love stuff when it comes to your pet, i will admit that it becomes part of the family and all thatbut god knows i dont take it out with us when we go for dinner, it dosnt sit and play cards with me, we dont sit out the back and chat over drinks, god almighty it is my pet, its not human, and it treats me like a dog im just another member in the pack
My girl is more than a pet. She is not only a loyal companion, she is far more faithful than any human female a I have yet met.And yes, We are always together in places that will allow dogs.No, we may not have sex, but there are other ways of showing love.As for being just another member of the pack; are we really that different?We go out, sniff and growl around the opposite sex, make fools of ourselvesin an attemp to entice them, and then end up fighting over them!Give me a good dog anytime and I will be happy.
I agree, id rather a dog anytime over a human.i have owned dogs all my life, and im not reall young, also horses , cows chooks birds cats, and really any other pet that the law allows you to own, i also grew up on a farm, although now alas i live in the citybut to me, love is what i had for the woman i married and the children we had together, love is not my dog, best friend , probably, but not my love
There's a difference between "would you do it" and "is it wrong."Would I "do" a stray? Probably not. Too dangerous, too iffy, too questionable. That's my personal choice.Is it wrong? Of course not, as long as the sex is consensual.It's exactly like a one-night stand. It's not to everyone's taste, and that's fine. Nobody's forcing you to have a one-night stand, and nobody's forcing the stray either -- that's the one thing I keep saying over, and over, and over, make sure it's really consensual.But just because someone doesn't like one-night stands, doesn't make it wrong, any more than the fact that I am not interested in having sex with another man makes homosexuality wrong, as long as everyone involved, male or female, human or beast, consents.Gee, I sound like a broken record on the consent thing, don't I? But really, that's what it's all about. If the parties involved consent, it's nobody else's business what they do.
I wouldnt have sex with any dog female until she understands and trusts me. And knows that I am not going to kick her out afterwards.
QUOTE (atomx @ Mar 29 2005, 07:14 AM) There's a difference between "would you do it" and "is it wrong."Would I "do" a stray? Probably not. Too dangerous, too iffy, too questionable. That's my personal choice.Is it wrong? Of course not, as long as the sex is consensual.It's exactly like a one-night stand. It's not to everyone's taste, and that's fine. Nobody's forcing you to have a one-night stand, and nobody's forcing the stray either -- that's the one thing I keep saying over, and over, and over, make sure it's really consensual.But just because someone doesn't like one-night stands, doesn't make it wrong, any more than the fact that I am not interested in having sex with another man makes homosexuality wrong, as long as everyone involved, male or female, human or beast, consents.Gee, I sound like a broken record on the consent thing, don't I? But really, that's what it's all about. If the parties involved consent, it's nobody else's business what they do. not necesarily so... I am a newbie -but thanks to the thoughfulness of many of our experienced members I can look into the matter with deeper understanding... of course both parties involved need to be consenting -HOWEVER -a dog consents without the possibilities of reprecussions in mind -so even if the K9 is more than happy to particpate -you as the human need to factor in the outcome -what if this "stray" has a happy home and is just wondering about and you pick him/her up and have your way -then it goes home and displays unwanted learned behavior from your little one night stand -it could cost this innocent animal thier life -the animal is not capable of foreseeing outcome every situation in life is different -I am not judging anyone who says yes or no by any means -nearly everyone -or at least most everyone I have met here are truely loving folks -it's just a reminder to think before you act...
But consider this... if you OWN a male dog now and teach it to have sex with you, "what if" you die and that male dog has a new owner? Now maybe he'll have those same "bad habits" and be killed by his new owner. Does that mean that nobody, even pet owners, should have sex with animals?Well, that's what the SPCA would tell you, but I doubt that most on here would agree. "What if" you *don't* have sex with that stray, and his owner, who's into beastiality and is borderline psychopathic, gets frustrated at his inability to perform and kills him? Then you are responsible for his death because you didn't give him the training he needed!Of course this is a bogus supposition (it's intended to be transparently fake) which shows the danger of using "what if" as your compass for making ethical decisions. You can make up "what if" until the cows come home, but that doesn't bear any necessary relation to reality.Focus on the harm (or lack of harm) directly in front of you, not the bogeyman. When you do that, the conclusion is pretty inescapable -- as long as consent is obtained and the animal is left in equal or better condition (including his living condition) to when you found him, there's no ethical problem. It's just a matter of personal preference at that point.Of course, my argument has a gaping hole -- the consent of the pet OWNER. But this hasn't been discussed, I think, because we zoophiles are uncomfortable with the dichotomy of saying that pets are like people and should have the right to choose to have sex with a human, but on the other hand say that they are like slaves or children and have no right to make their own decisions. Either way we go on that argument, we're not going to like the answers. Either they're fully (but differently) sentient beings, just like us, and have the right to choose their own sexual destiny -- in which case, there are some SERIOUS moral problems with owning them like property, or they're like children -- unable to think and choose for themselves, and hence unable, ethically, to consent to sex. We're left with the unpalatable choice between zoophilia as akin to pedophilia and other sex crimes that involve taking advantage of the weak (which is what the Humane Society will tell you it is), or seeing pet ownership as a form of slavery (which is something PETA has been claiming -- but they're all a bunch of psychopaths, so who knows). Not very pleasant alternatives. From what I've read, most people seem to dodge that bullet by just ignoring it. It's the old "elephant in the middle of the room" trick.
QUOTE (atomx @ Mar 31 2005, 08:40 AM) Of course this is a bogus supposition (it's intended to be transparently fake) which shows the danger of using "what if" as your compass for making ethical decisions. You can make up "what if" until the cows come home, but that doesn't bear any necessary relation to reality.Focus on the harm (or lack of harm) directly in front of you, not the bogeyman. I would hardly call taking into consideration the outcome of your actions "not bearing any necesary relation to reality" or chasing the "boogeyman." My propostion of outcome was not only possible, but probable according to a lot of experienced people I have spoke to concerning the subject -and by your own admition -your propostion of scenerios were far-fetched -certainly not probable or grounded -and sounds like a stab in the dark at justification... but reguardlessI clearly stated that I am not here to judge anyones stance on this subject -but I must retract -your total disreguard for bearing responsibility for your actions and the welfare of the animal is very scary and saddens me. I thought that it was a given that as we discussed the subject that we all cared FIRST about the animal -and my previous post was just an attempt to have those caring people think out side of the box -to take things into consideration they may not have thought about -to hear someone defend a "you gives a about the outcome" is devistating.
I cannot help but, have fantasies of comming across a stray, as it could come up to me and ram me like there is no end.However, it would be like a One night stand. I feel hurt when one night stands happen to me all the time, with men and wemon: so if I did it, it would be like what others do to me...
Southflorida, taking the consequences of your actions into account is good. But unless you know the likelihood that a given consequence will occur if you act versus the likelihood that it will occur if you don't, you really can't use that as a basis for decision, as it's just, as I said, chasing a bogeyman. Anything might happen.Every action has infinite potential consequences, both good and bad. That's a given, and if we used every potential consequence as a factor in deciding, we'd never act. We'd never make any decisions at all, good or bad. If I go out for a drive, I might lose control of my car and kill someone. By your logic, I (and everyone else) should never drive because we might kill someone. But how likely is it? The fact that it's very unlikely to happen is why it's ethically acceptable to drive (or, in fact, do anything at all).PROVE that dogs who are trained to have sex with humans are more likely to be injured as a result, and I'll 1. concede the point and 2. point out that this means that probably nobody should really be having sex with dogs at all (since you'll have proven that having sex with an animal (stray or not) is potentially harming it.) Do you really want to win that point?QUOTE I would hardly call taking into consideration the outcome of your actions "not bearing any necesary relation to reality" or chasing the "boogeyman." My propostion of outcome was not only possible, but probable according to a lot of experienced people I have spoke to concerning the subject -and by your own admition -your propostion of scenerios were far-fetched -certainly not probable or grounded -and sounds like a stab in the dark at justification... And there, you've shown that you missed the entire point. Perhaps this bit of my post (that you even quoted) will clarify it:QUOTE Of course this is a bogus supposition (it's intended to be transparently fake)...I realize that my hypothetical psychopathic zoophile is farfetched. It was intended to be. That's why I said "it's intended to be transparently fake." It was intended to show the futility of playing "what if" when you simply don't know how likely the outcome is. QUOTE I thought that it was a given that as we discussed the subject that we all cared FIRST about the animal -and my previous post was just an attempt to have those caring people think out side of the box -to take things into consideration they may not have thought about -to hear someone defend a "you gives a about the outcome" is devistating.Perhaps you've missed every single post I've made on this thread stating that the animal's wellbeing comes before any self-interest; I can't see any other way you could come to this ridiculous conclusion. If so, I urge you to reread my posts rather than just make up things to try to attack. Note how often I use phrases like "the animal's consent" and "as long as the animal is not harmed" and so on. If that is something that you can translate into "[who] gives a [damn] about the outcome" then I have to suspect that we're not actually communicating in the same language, or that you haven't actually bothered to read what I've written.In short, you have still failed to show how "doing" a stray, in itself, is harming the animal. You've shown one way that it could harm the animal, and if you can demonstrate that this potential harm is a likely outcome, I will concede that it's something that should deter a moral person from "doing a stray." I don't plan to "do a stray" whether it's moral or not, so it won't really affect me, but it will be interesting to know.But you haven't shown that. You mentioned that "a lot of experienced people" think that it's likely. Okay, who? Can you name some names? Got any figures? Got any real-world examples where it's actually happened? Or is it, as you said, "far-fetched - certainly not probable or grounded?"If you truly want to debate the point, you're going to have to do a bit better than "someone told me it might cause problems," and you'll have to do much better than simple insults. Your argument seems to boil down to little more than a "think of the children" emotional argument -- all emotional rhetoric with no substance. You appeal to our kinder emotions (think of the poor, innocent animals) without making any effort to prove that the threat to the animals that you're warning against will actually happen. Yes, protect the children, and protect the animals -- I'm all for that! But protect them against realistic threats, not bogeymen.
Please help keep this site free by visiting our site sponsors - click on the banned below and have a look at their sites.
Let me preface this by saying this posts is my attempt to put atomx and southflorida into a deep sleep (it's kinda long) so that when they awake they'll forget all about any disagreement.I'd kind of say that maybe atomx and southflorida are talking past each other a little bit. From what I read into it, both of you have excellent points, and I personally don't think either one of you are "right" or "wrong" compared to the other. Atomx said some time back that he probably would not "do" a stray, because there are all of the risks mentioned here. I wouldn't think getting caught with a stray is much more likely than getting caught with your own dog, so the concern must be over health issues and the welfare of the animal. At least that's what I'm hoping. The rest of the views seem to be more in the general cosmic sense of "is it wrong to have sex with any stray ever just for gratuitous mutual pleasure?". And he's right. We have to admit the answer is that it is a matter of individual choice based on the situation and both individuals. It probably is a very bad idea in most cases, but that doesn't make the concept wrong. South, it seems like you're taking the more specific and individual look at what could happen in the worst-case scenario. And you're right. It could happen and probably would more than a few times. But that can't justify a blanket statement. It's one thing to take in a dog that obviously has had no care for some time and you know it's either a true stray or the real owners don't deserve it. Completely another to take in a clean healthy dog, say with some flattened hair where you could tell it was wearing a collar, hump it, and then either throw it out or wait for the owners to come pick it up. And I would actually clarify that in my opinion a "stray" in this discussion shouldn't even include an owned dog. Hopefully anyone who ever would get involved with a stray has the discrimination to realize what the right choice would be. But if you did have sex with a real stray, it probably never would have the chance to cause a problem later, which is another issue.I've already stated that I wouldn't take one in for an evening (for any purpose), and release it back into the wild. My opinion is that as a person who has a kind heart (towards animals, anyway) I would try to give the animal a good home if able. If possible save it from the shelter (and a guaranteed surgery). If not, decide what is more important to you. Condemning the dog to celibacy in and after a shelter, or leaving it free to do what nature tells it and then get run over or shot. So like I said in my previous statement on the subject, I don't think the sex makes it wrong. Releasing the dog whether you had sex or not is the worse problem here.I won't actually pass any other judgement on the sex thing, as far as unwanted behavior. I will ask a serious question here for anyone who has real knowledge of this. As I said above, some dogs would probably learn their "lesson" a little too well, and display unwanted behavior. How often has anyone experienced this, especially after only one or two encounters? I've had prolonged relations with two different male dogs, and neither of them have ever even once done anything embarrassing. All dogs are different, though, so I would like to hear some personal experiences if anyone has them to share. I'd really like to know a bit more about female dogs, since my guess is that they wouldn't be as embarrassing as a male dog. But again, I know next to nothing never having had an embarrassing dog.As far as the ownership thing, I personally think that there is a way around the two lines of thought atomx described. No, animals aren't capable of managing their own affairs very well. We do need to feed them, keep them off the streets, and all that. The reason for that, though, is because they are animals that we have taken out of the wild and modified to our own ends. And that gives us a responsibility towards them. We can't just say "animals are people too" and throw our gates open. I think we are now responsible for giving them a fulfilled life, whatever that means. But while they aren't wild animals any more, they still are mature complex animals driven by hormones and instinct. Because of that, sex is a natural act for them. Being free from boat anchors like "morals", they are as South said free to act without concerns of the repercussions. Which means as long as there are no negative effects of sex (such as being put down for unwanted behavior), there is nothing wrong with it for the animal. On this site, that's kind of preaching to the choir of course. But I think this synthesis of the points atomx makes brings them above children and mentally disabled, while resolving the ownership and responsibility issue.For those who skipped straight to the bottom, I'll ask my question again: what's your experience with unwanted behavior in dogs, especially after only a small number of encounters?Friends???
Akitas, you make a really interesting point about the responsibility we owe towards animals as a result of domesticating them (even though it does smell an awful lot like "white man's burden" to my quickly skimming eyes).But even so, having a responsbility towards a creature is not the same thing as ownership. Perhaps I'm a drunk, and I've injured you in a drunk driving accident. Perhaps you're disabled for life, and I'm now (rightfully) required to pay you money to keep you alive. This is just.However, does this imply that I can tell you who you can and can't sleep with? At what point do we get the right to decide for another creature who it can (to put it baldly) screw? When does responsibility imply ownership? At what point can we say that "my choice overrides your free will?"I agree with the responsibility we (humans) have towards our domesticated animals. But the only real arguments that hold water against why you shouldn't have sex with someone else's pet (besides the fact that, obviously, the animal should consent, and leaving out the still-undecided question of whether sex with animals, in itself, puts them at risk) are property arguments. You're doing something with somebody else's animal (note the ownership terminology) without their consent. But that just begs the question: do we (or can we) really own another sentient creature? Either we have to say yes, we can (which I rather violently disagree with ), we have to say animals aren't sentient (in which case ANY sex with animals is borderline abuse), or we have to admit that we can't use ownership to determine who our pets have sex with.Quite often when these sexual consent issues are brought up, sex is couched in terms of harm or potential harm; it's implicit in the argument that to have sex with a creature is to potentially harm it. If this were actually true, then yes, our responsibility towards the animals which you pointed out would include a responsibility to protect them from the harm of sex. But is anyone on here really trying to prove that sex with animals is the same as harming them? I would wager that that would be an incredibly unpopular argument here Absolutely, friends. I am not personally involved in all of this, and regardless of the outcome, I am just arguing because I think it's a fascinating discussion. As you pointed out, I have no interest in "doing a stray." Even if you leave out the moral question, I think that it would be very unfulfilling and risky, so when you add the moral question back into it, my overwhelming feeling is "why even bother?" Maybe a fun fantasy, but that's all...
Please help keep this site free by visiting our site sponsors - click on the banned below and have a look at their sites.
I have read all of this thread over and over and not just today -this is the only thread I have pinned in my personal profile -I have read all the previous comments MANY TIMES...and yes Atomix you have repeatedly talked about the welfare of the animal PRIOR to sex and DURING sex -and even the immediate welfare the few minutes after -ie: water/food/shelter -but your comments clearly indicated that you were not willing to take the LONGTERM welfare of a stray into account after a one night stand.... or including your post that you probably wouldn't do a stray -that others shouldn't take into account the LONGTERM welfare of the animal -that it is chasing the boogeyman, as you re-itterated...I am certainly big enough to say that I was probably a little to harsh with you in my last post -and I apologize -I was wrong to do so -sorry again, (and I mean that) but I still must stand that it's my opinion that taking the longterm consequences and welfare of the animal is IMPORTANT to ME -and I will continue to ask other members who are contimplating strays take it into consideration. In this thread and in other threads you will find VERY EXPERIENCED AND RESPECTED members of this forum like BitchFool LadyR and Neece just for example -caution that it is indeed a life and death matter -and at least for ME -it would be erronous not to weigh thier valued experiences and words of caution with a lot of respect -so again I ask all to weight the longterm welfare of the animal before acting -then proceed as you see fit. I'm just proposing that it should be considered -and then I'm sure each member will act responsible -and make the correct decision for thier specific and individual circumstances.
Just to put my two cents in...I would not "do" a stray, but I might take one home and either find its proper home, or if it didn't have one, I'd give it a home if I could. If it should later develop into a more intimate relationship, then so be it. If it had a home, but the owner seemed abusive, I'm not really sure what I'd do. The law treats pets as property, so I can't take the animal away because of the owner's legal rights to ownership. I might report the owner to the proper authorities, though, if I had some sort of proof.Just my little blurb.
SouthF: it sounds like you want to just make assertions (like I don't care about an animal's long-term welfare) without any basis in evidence, and drop names ("important people disagree!"). While this may convince you that you're right, it far from convinces me, and frankly never will. I appreciate your apology, but frankly I wasn't really angry, just sort of disappointed. I enjoy a good debate and always get frustrated if and when things descend to the name-calling level.I'm going to have to bow out of this one. We'll do that age-old cliche: agree to disagree.
I was harsh -but I never "named called" -you accuse me of reading into things that are not there -and it appears that you yourself are indeed the one doing so. You clearly stated that taking the welfare of a stray into account after sex is chasing the boogeyman -on several accounts -I'm not reading anything except what you wrote -I have exaggerated nothing -so we can agree to disagree -and I too hold no grudge HERE -but your last statement on the DO PEOPLE DO THIS thread once again has me VERY SUSPECT of your moral -errr -or should I say your non-existant moral ethics... once again it REALLY SADDENS ME
QUOTE (Akitas4me @ Apr 1 2005, 08:28 AM) For those who skipped straight to the bottom, I'll ask my question again: what's your experience with unwanted behavior in dogs, especially after only a small number of encounters? I've never had any problems with my girls.Perhaps they liked to snuggle more than other dogs but that's all and people never told me this was disturbing them
QUOTE (atomx @ Apr 2 2005, 10:23 AM)SouthF: it sounds like you want to just make assertions (like I don't care about an animal's long-term welfare) without any basis in evidence, and drop names ("important people disagree!"). QUOTE (atomix april 1 2005, 8:50 AM) You mentioned that "a lot of experienced people" think that it's likely, okay, who? Can you name some names? also forgot to point out this discrepency in my last post -once again, you acuse me of not reading your threads, and it's the exact opposite -apparently you haven't even read your own! YOU ASKED!Furthermore I have made no assertions -the ENTIRE conversation has evolved because you have made REPEATED statements that taking the welfare of a stray after a one night stand is "chasing the boogeyman" -you have REPEATEDLY made this statement -that's what this entire converstion is based on -and now "I am making assertions that you don't care about an animals long-term welfare" huh? either you just want to be argumentative at this point -or someone forgot ye olde prosac the last few days......
learning bad behavior ????what does that meani have known many dogs, some belonged to very good friends of mine, that knew exaclty what to try, and not because of learned behavior, but because they are male, just like humans they crave sex, they were not destroyed but taught just like any other training given.one night stands ??? arnt all the f...ks a stray dog gets whether human or a bitch that they come across one night stands ????the only time i have heard of a dog having a relationship or even marriage in some cases is when humans have put them in the situation, the first thing they would do if a bitch on heat appeared would be to run off and have thier little one night stand, its just nature at work, the rest is interfernce from us
I have noticed that many dogs seem to scense that you will let them mate with you. Yes I have had strays but they have followed me & I did feed them well & let them have a bed for the night. They were free to leave whenever they wanted & I didnt chuck them out. I now have a house in Spain & I have taken in a stray there. I think he must have been with someone else as he certainly knew what to do with no encouregmente at all. He is the only stray to keep coming back. He always seems ready to mate with me but after hes finished & been fed he just goes. I have noticed that a few strays do hang around with tho but perhaps it is just me imagining it.
Last modified on March 17th, 2010 | Zoodestiny.com | © 2003-2005 - All Rights Reserved