A word from our sponsors...
Please help keep this site free by visiting our site sponsors - click on the banned below and have a look at their sites.
Please help keep this site free by visiting our site sponsors - click on the banned below and have a look at their sites.
Do you concider all beastialists to be abusers or are they people who have sex with their animals but do not feel any emotion/attatchment towards the animal.
Please help keep this site free by visiting our site sponsors - click on the banned below and have a look at their sites.
I'm not sure I agree with the way you frame your question. I'm not saying your not entitled to ask this, what I'd like to queery is what led you to formulate your Q. in this way. There are lots of other ways to lead a discussion on the Zoo/beastiality debate which are not so devisive from the start.For instance, my early days approaching the whole Q. of zoo/beastiality were really confused, with no clear distinction between, no thought of catagories. If I hadn't come across this site, I would probably still have been seeing the relationship between animals and humans as another area of pornography. However, I was lucky in this respect, and have come to a much clearer understanding of not only my own sexuality, but what a muddy track we all walk to get there.Sorry if this sounds a bit 'heavy'-its not intended to. I guess I'm just a wee bit sensative
Hmm, well i've seen the debate about "What is a zoophile and what is a beasstialist" alot of times over the last four years (since when im online) and i read alot of very good arguments on both sides!I see many kinds of beastialist and zoophiles. Here are two of the beasty side:There is the one who just has sex with a animal of his choice but he dont loves him/her or feels any kind of emotinal bond towards him/her and only uses him/her for his own pleasureing. Can he be considert as Beastilist?I would say yes...Then there is the one who also has only sex with a animal of his choice and again wihtout any emotional bond but he doese respect the animal and his/her wellbeing and cares for him/her.Can he also be considert as Beastialist?Im not realy sure about that. He cares for the animal and cares for his/her wellbeing and respects him/her! but still he only uses the animal for his pleasure.I would consider this one as mix of both, zoophile and beasty.I think the major thing here is how you think about the what makes a zoophile and waht makes a beasty!In my case i can say that sex doesnt means much to me. The emotional bond between me and my mate, the love i feel for him, is the most importand thing in our relationship! I could live without the sex with him and i could still love him the same way like i do now. Sure would i miss the sex with him but it is just a part of our love. Its just the final way to express our love for each other!!So to me someone who only has sex with a animal without any kind of emotional bond isnt realy a zoophile (in the way i consider the meaning of zoophile) he is more a kind of beastyBut how everyone else sees this depends completly on his or her view about what makes a zoophile or a beastilaist...
Hi TribsaRead the post...i need help...in the zoophilia section it will explain
Maybe i should have put my question another way.If you were to describe a beastialist to the public in a newspaper for example would you use a negative conotation to describe them.There seems to be some confusion where does one draw the line and call the person an abuser.Am i right to say that beastialists deserve the same rights as zoophiles if there was a law passed to make zoophilia legal.In my way of thinking as soon as the animal is harmed then that person becomes an abuser can we still call that person a beastialist.It is confusing to me imagine how confusing it would be for the general public to understand.
i would consider myself a bestialist as i have no emotion attachment to my animals i could sell them tommorrow and feel no loss,in fact i have done that i have gotten bored with an animal or if the animal was not interested in sex i would get rid of them (always to a good home) i took a lab bitch i had to the pound she went to a good home .iwould have loved to keep her as she loved to play and was a very sexaull dog i had a lot of fun with her the reason i had to get rid of her was she was very aggressive and hyper not a good lab trait . i got her to raise pups i would have loved to have kept her but i was afraid she would have bitten someone .i take good care of my dogs ,i like them but do not love them
I don't consider beastialists bad, as long as the animal is willing and not harmed or forced... it's not my thing, because I really have to have that kind of connection to an animal to be more than mildly curious about them sexually. Don't have the slightest interest sexually in my two labs, but love them as pets. Most dogs I see I don't want to have sex with, but every now and then one will catch my attention, and I will consider making them a lover.There are times when I'd just like to meet a woman for a drink, a f*ck and then go our own ways, no emotion... so how can I say that's bad when it's a dog or horse instead of another human?
Please help keep this site free by visiting our site sponsors - click on the banned below and have a look at their sites.
Maybe a better way to break it down, would be like this:Zoophile: Full love and respect is given to the animal (Sex optional)Semi-Beastiality: Sex with the animal with no love, but general care and respect is given.Beastiality: Sex with the aniamal with little to no care or respect for the animal and only looking for one's enjoyment.Abuse: No care or respect is given to the animal and sex is forced onto the animal.That's my view on it.
True, sadly there are those who use their animals without any thought of the animals feelings or sensibilities., however I've found most are notthat way.I love my husky deeply, he's my silly, sweet, sexy boy. A good friend andcompanion. Always there with doggy affection, lust and love. I love his pawsholding me so tightly as he drives himself into me and locks throbbingly in my ass. I love when he awakens me in the morning, nosing and licking under the covers.The day he went tumbeling down the stairs during his clumbsy puppyhood and hurt himself, I unhesitatingly spent what ever was required to make him better. He's my baby boy and my second best friend. What else could I do?
bighorse: You are exactly the kind of person which i cant understand - and you probably cant undestand me...How can you have sex with someone wihtout having emotions for him/her?!?!This is like using a fake vagina or a blowup doll!! I dont want to get emotional here because i will regert imediantly what i wrote after i posted it! But you are exactly that kind of person who make zoophiles look bad in society! Things like that are reasons why i despise humanity so much! You are using what you get only to pleasure your desires. Maybe im just not that kind of guy to get it, maybe im not that superficial or i value the things around sex more then you do!But this is just disgusting to me!!Would you do the same with your wife? Or any other human lover? Could you also leave them or "give" them away like you do it with your animals?! (i wouldnd call it give it away, no matter how good the home might be!! all you do is forsake them!)No matter how good you think you care for them, if you only use them for sex and you are able to give them away you treat them like property! Like a piece of furniture or a old used car!! Damn man those are living and feeling creatures! They need more then food, water and a place to sleep! I will stop here or i will say someting i will realy regret!!
Thats right HR, that is why we have so many conflicts out here cause of people saying things that they are not, or want to be. I have no use or any good for people that don't care about animals and would love to abuse them in any way. Those are the ones that when they get caught for abusing an animal that they should have the same done to them for what ever they did to the animal.. They are just as desposable as they say the animals are. Being a beast, mean being a beast, plain and simple. You are a beast that don't care. Where as Zoophilia we are zoos with feelings for our animal lovers. Another way to spell it is zoofeelia, just for those that have problems on what the differences between the two of them. Another term; Zoos are lovers , beast are just fuckers.
HR,please try to understand, and accept that all people arent like you, i know..i didnt want to get into this and still dont, i dont believe in being called a beastialist or a zoo, im neither, and it makes no sense trying to segregate and group people together as this or that. we're far too unique and different to even try. I do feel the same way as you HR, i could never understand how someone can use an animal and then leave them, but, i remain silent on it simply cause i know nothing good will come of it, i cannot change peoples thoughts, or their mindset, thats up to them to do on their own. I can only say they are missing out on something truly beautiful! My family doesnt understand how a mere "dog" can mean so much to me, and i can never tell them..its sad, because to me, my dog is my equal, my lover, my soulmate, just because i am human, makes me no more important than any other life..thats what we humans have forgot somewhere down the line, i just hope people will think twice someday, and realize the animal theyre using, or hurting, or even giving up on, can feel sadness, hurt & love, just like we can.I truly believe animals are capable of love..after all we are animals too right?ILPK
ok guys i opened up a can of worms ,i told you how i felt i was honest i raise dogs and horses i could get rid of all of them except my lab male hes my buddy (no sex)and if something happened to him i would feel a loss.of course i am a lot older than you guys and have expierenced lots of loosses in my life when i was a boy 18 i had a coondog someone gave me as a pup i raised him and trained him to hunt and he was pretty good he got loose one day and got into poison and died i cried for days my mom (a tough old gal )thouhgt i was crazy that was 50 yrs ago .it is great that you guys feel the way you do about your pets but dont critize me for the way i feel i was just giving you my opinion and the way i feel thats the way i am take it our leave it
Please help keep this site free by visiting our site sponsors - click on the banned below and have a look at their sites.
Thanks for your repliesBighorse i thank you for being honest you are not a criminal in my eyes you obviosly have many animals to care for and have your favorites that you love and would never sellI see the topic has hit a nerve with a few people .I live in the country and know many dog breeders and horse people some have over 100 animals All of them do it because they love animals .There are people in it just for the money and dont give a shit about the animals but they dont last very long because once people find out no one will do busness with them.News travells fast in the country and people wont and dont put up with it.
I hope i didnt come across too strong bighorse, takes alot of courage to come out and say what you say, I just didnt want this too get too bad, is why i never posted earlier.We're all going to disagree on certain things, but i always have believed everyone has a right to their own opinions and beliefs, and i cant judge someone on that, just cause they dont see eye to eye with me on certain things. i may have seemed to neglect that in my earlier post, never meant any disrespect or criticism, just tried to keep things from going a bit far and possibly another fight breaking out over something pointless
ILPK,You made good sense of how you feel, and about how equal we should be with our pets or lovers of another species. It's just that others don't look at it that way, they just use them, animals, and thats what makes the differences between us, is what HR is pointing out. We may all be the same in one way, but different in others.
Wolfie: The sad thing is that threads and talks like this still have to show up!! Its realy sad to see that even people who love and live with animals who are all in all almost only emotional beings are still able to treat them so... in such a way.I agree with you that in some cases the owners should be treated the same way they treat their animals...Oh and i realy love the idea of yours - zoofeels ILPK: Well i think i talked about my past a bit allready and it is still a big part of my presentIm not the one to judge! I dont like doing it and i allways try to avoid thinking in any way that could lead me to judging other people without knowing them!I got judged by other people all of my live. I got beaten up, kicked around and all in all treaded like dirt! Just because people looked at me and judged me by what i looked like or the way i behaved, but never by what i was behind my surface! Thats the reason why i allways try to be polite, kind and friendly. After i created the thread "Would you share your animal" over at the Zoophiliaforum i got a mail from someone who is from this forum - though he created a completly new account for that mail! He insulted me and called me alot of things along with "better zoo who thinks only his believes are right and being unable to accept other opinions" well atleast it was very close to this! Being used to getting insulted and such i still felt very much attacked and sad that someone didnt hat the balls to post this answere on the forum but still felt tough enough to write it to me! Still i didnt reported that guy! I could have done that an im pretty sure the admins and mods here have ways to find out who that guy was, but i didnt! I think people like that will have to learn that some people are different and wont behave their way just because they act or behave tough or strong...Some people will have and keep their own opinons no matter what the mass of people says or thinks!Anyways, dogs were the first living creatures on this planted that havnt treaded me like shit or dirt like almost every human did! They've accepeted me the way i was and still am! Therefor i have and allways will have a very close bond to them, because of that i allways feel so damn sad and disapointed if someone treads dogs like "furniture" or just "things", which can be replaced when they're broken or worn out...Besides of that i have lost my first real love way to earlie because of the idiocy of a drunken guy and every time i read from someone treating his dogs bad or in the way like bighorse does i think: Why the hell did Shina had to die and that (insert insult here) is allowed to have dogs and treat them like that!!!I allways try to ignore that while surfing this or any other board but sometimes i just cant take it anymore!!!Because of the behavior of a few people we other zoophiles who love their animals are treated like scum, shit and rapeists. If the society would only see the love we have for our mates they (or atelast some people) might would accept us and our lifestyle way earlier! But 99% of all people only see and believe about the few people who treat their animals like things like objects to use... There are so many things that make me sad and angryI can and i do accept other people opions and ways to live, thats why im still a member of this place and why im still alive. If not i would have allready been banned or i would be lieng six feet deep in dirt... But sometimes i just cant stand it anymore and then i have to say what i think if it k!lls me or not!! This was one of those cases and i have to say if someone cant deal with it im sorry but i wont change my opinion - never!! I think i dont need to justify my opion or what i have said but still i do so everone knows why i say the things i say...bighorse: No matter what i have said i thank you for being honest and dont pretending to be different the way you are!I might be young - im only 24 - but that doesnt means i still have to be unexpiereanced or naive. I dont care for the age of someone like i said a couple of times - let him/her be 10 or 100, it doesnt matters to me, i treat every one the same way...In my life i have lost alot of people i loved very much! Infact only my parrents and my brother are tthe only ones left of my family which i dont hate! Those i loved in my family died allready, also most of the people i liked in my life have either left or died. I have lost so many animals for which i cared and which i loved (even though only my Shina was also my lover and mate) its useless to cout them! I know many people here have lost beloved ones, many of them probably in way worser ways then i did. And when i read how you talk and think about your animals which offer you their heart and their body and all you do is "use" them i cant help but all i feel is hate, disgust and i feel sorry for you.Hate: because that behavior is just the way so many humans act and behave! Take what ever you can and never care about those you hurt with that!Disgust: because you are just another one of "those" people who dont realy care about the importand things besides sex and because i dont... well i better not write what i have on mind...Sorry: because you miss so much, so much more which sex cant give you! All you have is the act and nothing more...Yes you are right, there is no way words can change you. And im not the one to try it - im not the one to critize you either... I think noone should but still i feel the way i do about you, all i can say is i hope that some day you might change. I hope that you will expiereance and feel and the love for your dog that i and so many others here feel. I hope it for you and all the dogs and animals from you...Oh and sorry if i might sound a bit harsh - i havent slept for almost 30 hours and almost had a carcrash this morning. So please bear with me....
HR, I do agree with you on the fact..that animals are the only creatures who have never made me feel awful about myself, never treated me like sh*t and no matter what, even if everyone in the world hated me that day..my dog stil loves me as i am thats why i feel so strongly about them, and always try to stick up for what i believe in. I didnt mean to sound like i was accusing you of being judgemental and ignorant to other peoples beliefs or opinions, lifestyle, anything.Its just, i have had some very remarkable people change how i thought, and how i felt in life..being accepted for who i am when i thought NO ONE would..to me that is a gift i can never repay no matter how long i live, i can only learn from it, and try to see life through others eyes, and show them the same compassion others have shown me, in my life. that is why i always try to see the best in people yet even when others are always fighting against me, you know?ILPK
Very well put HR. And thanks for your kind comments and appreicative to my new word
To me, in a nutshell, there are three totaly different feilds in this matter. There is love, lust, and [CENSOR]. [CENSOR] in all aspects is wrong and can be applied to all persuations. In my own opinion I think that someone can be straight and homosexual, gay and heterosexual, etc. Thats an exmaple of love and lust. You can have emotions towards somethings and have urges towards others. I beleive the same applies to Zoophilia and Beastiality, one is love one is lust. You can easily have one or the other, but to me they are tied together.
Will [forced, non-consentual sex] do instead?
Please help keep this site free by visiting our site sponsors - click on the banned below and have a look at their sites.
ILPK, That is the main reason alot of us love our dogs ao much, the way they are always there for us, no matter what happens. People starve their dogs and pets, and still they are there. It is a damn shame that stupid humans do that stuff, even so they do it to their own kids and others that they are caring for. There is the number one clue there, that if someone can't take care of someone elses kid, animal then they can't take care of their own nor themselves, and should be put alway so no others will be abused or harmed by them. There are alot of cases out there where people have killed others kids and pets, because they the simple fact they get pissed off, and who pays for it, the ones that can't defend for themselves. Dogs being dragged behind cars, being shot, hanged, blowed up by firecrackers, poisoned, cut up, stabbed, kicked, and you name it. Azzhole people have done it to their dogs and others' dogs. The fact of getting pissed off, and then rage sets in. So back to the dogs ther ILPK, dogs are truly the bestest friend and lover one can have, they will never cheat on you, lie to you, divorce you, and etc... They truly show far more love then any human can ever show or give us. Sometime in your life your parents get pissed at you, brother or sister may have done the same, every human have had a pissed off time now and then or alot of times. But, you never really ever see a dog do anything like that, unless it had a damn good reason to, like abuse, torture or etc.. Then yes, I'd be pissed also.ILPK, glad to see you love your dog as much as you do, and your family is still behind you for that.
ILPK: Well sofar i have allways only met the wrong people in my life - before i found this place... Sofar allways everyone though there was a need to change me, some see it as their duty to change other people, im not one of them. I just try to open the door, you have to walk through it. Its you choice to accept and deal with what i offer or not. Anyways, i dint thought you wanted to accuse me of anything. Its just one of my stupid twists that i feel the need to explain why i do things, why i think the way i do, why i am the one i am... and so on. I allways, try not to be the way so many people have behaved towards me - i allways try to be polite, firendly but sadly im open and i tend to say what i think. But i just cant see only the good in people anymore.., there has happend way to much in my past. I lost that ability but like i said as long as i dont know someone i dont dare to judge him...Wolfie: Hehe, well you're welcome! Irealy like the idea of zoofeels. The word somehow realy expresses the way many zoos think! llloolo: Well said! I agree with you, love and lust belong together! Lust without love will allways lack of something and even though not inall cases i also have to agree that love comes together with lust! To me sex is the final way to express love.Besides just write it r@pe or leave a space after the r
Hello. I have a lot of strong feelings over this topic. What was written by Bighorse inspires the same emotions in me as it did in HR. As one who is first and foremost a lover, as well as one who is trying to get zoophilia to appear better to society, I feel that zoophiles and beastialists need to be seperated. Like HR said, beastialists make us as a group look bad. This is of course my own opinion. ILPK, you are very right. There are many among us who walk in darkness. Darkness created by the unknown. Not everyone has had an experience that brought them to be in love with an animal. All to often people remain ignorant to this love as a result of their insecurities blinding them to it. It is a shame that all to often many of us will never open oursleves up to the kind of love that is purer then most. This love is something that is not easily explained. The feeling that I get whenever I lay eyes on my baby is not something that words could ever express justly. I love her with all of my heart. I am completely in love with her. This love is real and pure. I could not see how one could not love such a creature. I just can't see it.
Please help keep this site free by visiting our site sponsors - click on the banned below and have a look at their sites.
I think you are right --2-- there is a big difference between the two i personaly have very strong emotional attachments to animals ...in the past i have grieved more so when an animal has died then when a person has died.At the same time i also have animals that live by themselves they have each other for company and dont realy need me for anything so i dont have an attachment to these animals....so i can sort of see were bighorse is comeing from.I also wish to tell you that i grew up on a station 140 000 acres in size ...death was a daily ocurance. Some people detach themselves totaly emotionaly wise but it doesnt mean they do not respect the animal.I t dosnt mean they are [EMAIL REMOVED - USE THE PRIVATE MESSAGE SYSTEM] buters in my experience people that are scared of there zoophilia side are more likely to abuse animals Put them down to make themselves seem better then the animal i dont know but i have seen some pretty bad behavior that i couldnt understand.
QUOTE (thowra @ May 9 2004, 10:57 PM) I think you are right --2-- there is a big difference between the two i personaly have very strong emotional attachments to animals ...in the past i have grieved more so when an animal has died then when a person has died.At the same time i also have animals that live by themselves they have each other for company and dont realy need me for anything so i dont have an attachment to these animals....so i can sort of see were bighorse is comeing from.I also wish to tell you that i grew up on a station 140 000 acres in size ...death was a daily ocurance. Some people detach themselves totaly emotionaly wise but it doesnt mean they do not respect the animal.I t dosnt mean they are r@pests buters in my experience people that are scared of there zoophilia side are more likely to abuse animals Put them down to make themselves seem better then the animal i dont know but i have seen some pretty bad behavior that i couldnt understand. Hello Throwa. What you wrote is exactly what I feel, IMHO to be right. People who have not accepted this part of their life are more likely to abuse or not form emotional attachments to their animals. There are many securities that people hold onto that prevent them from ever seeing the love that an animal has to offer. I personally did not see it until after I literally hit the bottom. I was ready to take my own life when my dog stared at me. Just stared at me, in that moment I saw everything that she had to offer. We have never had sex. The love that we share is more then I could have ever asked for. And it is real. Had it not been for what happened I would not be free, I wouldn't be alive either. The more people hold onto the securities that "make sense" the less likely you are to ever discover love in an animal. Being free is a wonderful thing. Being in love is even better.
Well, here's how I see it:Is going out and having sex with another animal wrong if you don't have any emotional attachement to them? I don't think so... as long as you at least care enough about their well being so as not to hurt them in any way, and are at least courtious enough to make sure that it's a pleasurable experience for them. I mean, after all, we humans have sex with each other all the time without emotional attachments, and no one really gets hurt right? I see that in the same way as when someone fence jumps, for instance, and makes sure no one is hurt, and that everyone has a good time. However, when an animal is unwilling, and it is plainly obvious, if the individual carries on, despite the obvious signs, then that is r@pe, and animal abuse.Have I ever fence jumped before? Yes I have, many times.Have I ever had an emotional connection with any of he animals I've had sex with? No, not really.Have I ever hurt any of the animals I've had sex with? Aside from the pain normally assosiated with a virgin having sex for the first time, no, but I have always been gentle with them and made sure that it was still pleasureable enough for them that they come back for more next time I'm in the field.Have I had a concern for their well being and health? Always, that is top priority.So, in the above respect, I do consider myself a beastialist. However, when I think of the relationship I have with me and my dog (female), Ebony (Ebby for short), I would also consider myself a zoo. I love her in just about every way that I love my wife. I've never had sex with her, but we kiss and cuddle lots, and the way we can communicate with each other even by looking into each other's eyes is nothing less than magikal. I think that I would let that relationship with her become sexual, but only when she's ready for it, and only if she wants it too; I would never force myself upon her.So when it comes to being a beastialist and a zoo, I think it's fair to say I'm a bit of both. (correct me if I'm wrong) I think that that statement right there, as I have defined it above, can apply to most of us really, which is one of the biggest reasons why I feel that the line between being a zoo and being a beastialist, is a very fine one indeed.Personally, I think the difference between a zoo and a beastialist is just as simple as the difference between someone who perfers to remain single and have loads of sexual experiences with lots of people, as opposed to someone who perfers to find one person, and be loyal and committed to just that one person.Well that's my contribution for today ^^
Well,we got a lot of differant resonses and views to eqch his or her own i can see why you (zoos)love your animals as you do i have seen many people like you and there is nothing wrong with that .i love my wife and kids and grandkids ,and i suppose i feel a stong attachment to my animals especially female dogs i can only discribe it as lust there is hardly anything more sexy than a responsive female ,i do not force them to do anything most of what i do they like i have one,right now taht i can do anything i want except penetration she has not had pups yet,and she loves it.i also have had dogs, mine and others i had a friend who had a st. bernard female i used to work for him once in awhile i had known this dog for sometime but not sexually one day i was working there and the dog approached me wagging her tail no one was home so i started petting her , i knelt down beside her started petting her rump and tail she was really getting excited so i ran my hand down her backside and felt her pussy it was huge i got instantly hard she was trying to lick my face slobbers all over i started rubbing her pussy slipped a finger in and she started humping i moved aroud behind her mounted her slipped my hands back between her her legs and fingered her pussy as she continued humping i could put ywo fingers in her i almost come in my pants ,when she was done she moved off and started to run around like crazy just like a pup we had many sessions after that never DID her but would have liked to but as id not want to get caught with my pants down .i really do like to tell of my experiances and because of beastforum and all the people here i can and i thank you for that
I think I've pretty much said my take on the whole thing in my posting-turned-essay "discriminating between lust and love". The term "zoosexual" and "bestialist" have no real difference in definition
IMHO we are talking about three things: Zoo=Agape centered in emotion. Beast=Eros centered in lust. Abuse=pain centered in phychopathy We all have some of all three. As long as we minimize the third one, there is no wrong.
Hmm, well everyone has his or her own opinon about it. There is no real good or bad if you aks me! It depends on what you value more: Sex and only sex and nothing more, or sex and a relationship, or sex as a ressutl of a loving relationship etc. you can continue this as long as you want. Everyone will find something that suites him well and fits to him...In my case its the love and the sex as result from a loving relationship. Its probably because of my past and because i never encountered real love except with dogs therefor sex itself doesnt means much to me!Im a romantic person and the emotions count for me higher then the short pleasure of sex...Each to his own...
QUOTE (Wolfie @ May 7 2004, 10:29 PM) Thats right HR, that is why we have so many conflicts out here cause of people saying things that they are not, or want to be. I have no use or any good for people that don't care about animals and would love to abuse them in any way. Those are the ones that when they get caught for abusing an animal that they should have the same done to them for what ever they did to the animal.. They are just as desposable as they say the animals are. Being a beast, mean being a beast, plain and simple. You are a beast that don't care. Where as Zoophilia we are zoos with feelings for our animal lovers. Another way to spell it is zoofeelia, just for those that have problems on what the differences between the two of them. Another term; Zoos are lovers , beast are just fuckers. I agree Wolfie, 1000%.. and with HR as well.. AND with wolfbat's defination's!! So I am a diehard ''zoofeelia''... I love my Sal with all my heart.. am I ''in love'' with him??.. NO I'm not. I love him for his personality, his kind wonderful loving heart, his playfullness, his friendship, THEN as a lover!! If tomorrow suddenly he never wanted to have sex with me again... I would love him NO less!! Miss it like hell *giggle* but still love him dearly for all the other reasons I stated above! I love my other 4 animals NO less and I DON'T have sex with them. ANYONE that owns an animal and does not show that animal the love and respect that they so willingly give US has NO right to own that animal.. let alone DESERVE them!!!
QUOTE (thowra @ May 7 2004, 01:57 AM) Do you concider all beastialists to be abusers or are they people who have sex with their animals but do not feel any emotion/attatchment towards the animal. Bestiality - sex with an animal.No positive or negative connotations attached to it in the dictionary. Keep it that way. Attaching a negative connotation to it only hurts zoophiles. If you are caught you are not charged with zoophilia but bestiality. So pushing Bestiality as "r a p e " can only hurt.r a p e is R a p ebestiality is sex with animals.Zoophilia is love of animals with a sexual side.
QUOTE (thowra @ May 7 2004, 01:57 AM) Do you concider all beastialists to be abusers or are they people who have sex with their animals but do not feel any emotion/attatchment towards the animal. no I dont think it would be abuse, I think animal owners should be able to do whatever they wish to there animals other than [CENSOR] them/torture them. So if the animal likes to have sex, then let it have sex!
QUOTE (zoostallion2001 @ May 28 2004, 07:16 AM) QUOTE (thowra @ May 7 2004, 01:57 AM) Do you concider all beastialists to be abusers or are they people who have sex with their animals but do not feel any emotion/attatchment towards the animal. Bestiality - sex with an animal.No positive or negative connotations attached to it in the dictionary. Keep it that way. Attaching a negative connotation to it only hurts zoophiles. If you are caught you are not charged with zoophilia but bestiality. So pushing Bestiality as "r a p e " can only hurt.r a p e is R a p ebestiality is sex with animals.Zoophilia is love of animals with a sexual side. Very good point i would have to agree that it is not a good idea to apply negative conotations to beastiality.
Please help keep this site free by visiting our site sponsors - click on the banned below and have a look at their sites.
I guess that would make me a zoo/bestialist then...
QUOTE (thowra @ May 30 2004, 11:35 PM)QUOTE (zoostallion2001 @ May 28 2004, 07:16 AM) QUOTE (thowra @ May 7 2004, 01:57 AM) Do you concider all beastialists to be abusers or are they people who have sex with their animals but do not feel any emotion/attatchment towards the animal. Bestiality - sex with an animal.No positive or negative connotations attached to it in the dictionary. Keep it that way. Attaching a negative connotation to it only hurts zoophiles. If you are caught you are not charged with zoophilia but bestiality. So pushing Bestiality as "r a p e " can only hurt.r a p e is R a p ebestiality is sex with animals.Zoophilia is love of animals with a sexual side. Very good point i would have to agree that it is not a good idea to apply negative conotations to beastiality. Add my vote to that and that abuse is abuse, period.
QUOTE Do you concider all beastialists to be abusers or are they people who have sex with their animals but do not feel any emotion/attatchment towards the animal. Well i dont see them as "abusers" but rather as "users". They only take without giving back! This is one of the many attitudes of humanity which makes me sad and sometimes so damn angry.So many people only take what they want from their friends, family, lovers partners and only give back a tiny little bit, not even worth enough to repay what they have taken! If they do it with a human i dont realy care much, because a human is able to recognize it and react on it - like breaking up a relationship or something like that. But a animal cant!! I dont see them as abusers, because they dont force the animal to have sex - well most dont but i know of some that did - that is almost impossibel without getting into real danger. Atleast many care for the wellbeing of the animals they have sex with... But again i guess your point about this topic depends on on which side you are and what you value most in your life and your relationships"As for apply negative conotations to beastiality this has allready happend. And i wasnt done by us or anyone on this forum but by nonzoos who created that word in the past. Like you said, thowra, if you get cought its beastiality.And its only one of two defenitions of the same thing, but i can be used as positve description or as negative.Having sex doesnt has to be a bad thing, but i can be! (note: Im not of those who see sex as dirty or anything bad!)
That's right HR, there are good ways to have sex and there are bad ways to have sex. The bad ways are like tying up a helpless dog so it can't bite and defend itself, or a human as well, against their own will. To have good sex there should never ever be a need to tie up anything, to have sex with it. If it needs to be tied up then it doesn't need to be mated with. If so then you deserve whatever you get in the future or in the end. You are a Beastialist, in my book. Zoos have no need to ever tie up an animal for any reason, and if the have to then they are abusing the zoo name. I have tied up a couple of my dogs, but Aniaml control told me to, cause they ran off, bitch down the road in heat. The only time zoos ever have to tie up their animals. to keep them from running loose and from getting hurt. HR, hope I'm not to far out of line on this, you and others know how I hate the BEAST word unless it is used to describe and animal.
Wolfie: Believe me i see it the same way as you do I not i would have left this thread after my first post...As for sex in a good or bad way, yeah you put i quite well! Though some people do and even some animals "might" enjoy being tied up! Sofar i have never read or heared about such a animal but i before i found this place here i had only read about dogs who liked to take it up the back. Here i finaly found some people - like you - who could prove it. So i can imagine that some animals maybe dont enjoy it but dont care about it... But you are right, so right, if you need to force him/her its not the right way mate! It should allways be fun for both!!
Thanks Sal and HR. Makes me feel special that I can help out. HR, all of my males that I've had, at first didn't care much for it, but by playing with their rears, and stuff like that, they began to enjoy it more and more. My one Samoyed I had, I'd finger is butt hole, and tell him to go sh*t, and he would, then come back in the house and run back into the bed room, up on the bed, and spread out to get screwed, everytime. The dog was 100% gay if I didn't know it. What it looked like to me. He would love to sit on my face, for me to lick him out, and he would do it to me to.Just a little insight of what some dogs enjoy, far above most of the others.
Please help keep this site free by visiting our site sponsors - click on the banned below and have a look at their sites.
Well if I'm totaly honest with myself I have to admit that I started of as a beastialist, but from the moment I saw that little cute rott puppy it was realy impossible not to fall in love with it relationship got more and more intens, even now it amazes me that it keeps on getting stornger.Understand beastialist since I started of as one but I'm totaly disgusted with people who don't take care of their dog or treat the like an object and just trade them or stuff. And even if you have sex and don't love them or have an intens friendship it's hard to believe you don't feel a kind of friendship or well glad that they help you out
That is the biggest thing that anyone can do, and needs to learn to do. To admit their faults. Like myself and Rotty, we laerned from our mistakes. Other people don't and some don't care. If they would just see the differences between the two of them, and to realize what one means over the other. Things may be better. Rotty, thanks for admitting that, alot of guts. I didn't want to either but things go on, mostly for the better, once you are honest with yourself and others.
Please help keep this site free by visiting our site sponsors - click on the banned below and have a look at their sites.
I've admited to zigging back and forth and I know that many of us have started that way. That's why I say that as long as everybody is healthy and happy just keep on. Relationships develope over time and who knows. Anybody could wake up Zoo one morning.
QUOTE (Bernard @ May 31 2004, 02:43 AM)QUOTE (thowra @ May 30 2004, 11:35 PM)QUOTE (zoostallion2001 @ May 28 2004, 07:16 AM) QUOTE (thowra @ May 7 2004, 01:57 AM) Do you concider all beastialists to be abusers or are they people who have sex with their animals but do not feel any emotion/attatchment towards the animal. Bestiality - sex with an animal.No positive or negative connotations attached to it in the dictionary. Keep it that way. Attaching a negative connotation to it only hurts zoophiles. If you are caught you are not charged with zoophilia but bestiality. So pushing Bestiality as "r a p e " can only hurt.r a p e is R a p ebestiality is sex with animals.Zoophilia is love of animals with a sexual side. Very good point i would have to agree that it is not a good idea to apply negative conotations to beastiality.Add my vote to that and that abuse is abuse, period.Another vote here for keeping it simple.If you are having sex with animals, then you are committing acts of bestiality.If you are in love with an animal or animals then you are a zoophile.If you use an animal for your own personal gratification without regard for its well-being or consent, then you are committing bestiality and r*pe.However, if you use an animal for your own personal gratification with regard for its well-being and consent, then you are simply committing an act of bestiality.HR, I do not fully understand your indignation with Bighorse. He fits the last statement very well, he commits acts of bestiality without r*pe, as I assume, you do. The main difference being your added love for your animal partner. To assert that morally one should only have sex as an expression of love is ridiculous. For one, you would be disregarding the natural force of lust, a force that drives and motivates most of the animal kingdom! In addition a person would have to feel love every time they commit a sexual act with another (an unrealistic requirement in my humble opinion.) I think the main thing here is that the animal's consent and well-being be a part of the sex equation.In terms of "people like him give us zoophiles a bad name," I must point out that the people who give "us" a bad name are the people being caught having sex with animals while doing things that obviously disregard the animal's well being such as, tying or restraining the animal, or, even worse injuring/killing them. When I read stories like that in the news, I cheer, glad that they were caught and dealt with by the law. Another thing to consider is that sex with animals is a social taboo. This is what drives some thrill seekers to do it. It's also what drives people who you'd consider to be rational and reasonable people to instead be irrational and prejudicial. They throw all consideration for zoophillia and love of animals out the window because in their view, an animal absolutely cannot consent, and absolutely will be harmed in the act of perverted human lust. To the vast majority of people, ANYONE who has sex with animals is commiting a crime zoophile or not!
Please help keep this site free by visiting our site sponsors - click on the banned below and have a look at their sites.
Tomokato: Well i said what i think. To me sex is the final and most powerfull way to express love (another would be to die for your beloved) You might get the impression im a moralist, well yes in some cases i am! And i dont feel bad because of that!!I dont ment that you should have to feel love for you lover everytime you have sex with him. *I* only have sex because i love my mate! Is my way to express my deepest feelings for him - like i said the final and most powerfull way i can express it to him! I just cant understant how someone can f*ck someone without these feelings!Like i said sex doesnt means much to me, i could happily live with out it but i could never live without love!!Some people might be able to live with sex alone, like some are able to live with only one partner or completly alone. I cant! You might be right, i might have over reacted a bit but you havent read and seen what i have over the last four years! I've read from people who sold time with their dogs for sex and they said the same things like Bighorse - its ok for them, they dont get harmed, i read from people who tied their animals up to have sex with them - and it was done with force!there was absolutly no love included, i've read from someone who fed his bithces hormons(or whatever) so they were allways willing! Dont get me wrong, i dont accuse anyone here to do this kind of things! But those expiereances have shaped me and my way of thinking about some things!I cant f*ck a animal just to get of, sorry i just couldnt no matter how goddamn horny i am!! I could never have sex with a animal i dont love or atleast feel something for...You are right, lust is probably the most powerfull force in nature, its the reason why the species were able to spread all over the world and reproduce. But does lust alone gives you the right to do as you like? To "use" a animal for your own gratitude?Bighorse said he could give away all of his lovers in a second (except of some special ones). Take a look in the real world, everone is doing this! Today its true love, tomorrow just a decent fuck-and-forget! I've seen dogs that were loved today and given away tomorrow, no matter if they are given into a new and good home. They are able to love, fear, hate and love! Could you give away your child just because you are fed up with it? I dont think so, very few humans can do that, but almost everyone is able to give his dog away because he doesnt loves it anymore! It doesnt matters if that dog is given to a family that loves him, he will allways remember who raised him first, who loved him first, who cared for him first and he will feel pain because he was forced to leave! This has happend to my own mate, he was raised and loved from his owners but from one day to another he was just replaceable, he had to sleep in a car because he wasnt allowed to sleep inside the house. Those poeple who loved him and cared for him now left him outside in the cold and wanted to give him away the next day! Now and then we meet his former owners and everytime this happens his eyes start to glow, he gets happy in a way he never does for me or anyone else in my family! He knows who those people are and what they have done for him, but he also remembers what they have done to him! He rarly lets them touch him, no matter how happy he is, he avoids there touch!I might sound a bit oldschool - no im not a saying-sex-before-marriage-is-wrong-guy, hell no! But the way humanity is behaving towards its own kind and others shows that something is seriously wrong with our sepcies! No other being on this planet is as cruel as we are, yes animals do k1ll, yes animals do fuck-and-forget but thats the way they are!!! Thats the way its ment to be for them, thats the only way for them to survive! Bu we are different, atleast in some parts, we can do things out of love out of hate out of lust, but we are also able to control it!!We are able to treat our own species and every other too with more respect. I was a bit harsh on Bighorse, he treats his animals with respect and cares for them but he also sais he could replace them without a second of hesitiation! And its like in hostory, the bad things allways overweight the good things... If a animal is good enough to have sex with then its good enough to show some kind of love to it. Even if its only the acceptence that this animal loves you, no matter if you love it and no matter what you do to it. And its your *duty* to return this love because the animal isnt able to understand why you just stopp loving it!I know all of what i wrote might sound a bit of, but this is how i think and how i rate things on my way...And if youre still looking for some intentions why i am like this take a look into the "Woe is me" Thread by Shane J and read my story. If you are able to understand my feelings for that specific animal then you might be able to understand why i feel this way today!
*sigh* I have a complete feeling of deja-vu here. Yes, this discussion has been up before - several times. And yes, it has ended with people taking an "holier than thou" position, and yes, it has actually almost ended with people getting banned for flaming other members.First; animals having sex with other animals, do they love eachother? With a few exceptions, there are no such thing as monogamy between animals. Second, its fully possible to have sex with an animal, and the animal have great pleasure as well as the human, without any love from the human, nor the animal. Some dogs will hump everything, even "dead" things like chairs and trees and so on....Is it love that makes the animal do this? I doubt it If we transfer this to human relationships; In an ideal world one would find ones soul mate at first try - but its not an ideal world now, is it? Many need to experiment for a while to find out f.ex. if they are gay and so on. Many bad marriages would have been avoided if more people took their time to figure out their sexuality BEFORE getting married. There is also a matter of not being compatible in bed, simply. How would you find out if you dont try? So its not allways a question of a quick "wham, bam thank you ma'm" and anyone that has some years of experience and life wisdom knows this. My best friend says; "you have to kiss a lot of frogs before you find your prince", and she is right. People change their ideals, they develope their personalities and the kind of person you would want when you are 20 may not be the one you want when you are 30.THAT said; I hate seeing animals hurt in any way. I have basically grown up with dogs, and I love them. BUT - I WOULD NEVER ever put my self as a judge over people that have a different view on how to practise sex with their animals, as long as the animal is not hurt, nor coerced into something. Therefore, IMHO, bighorse is doing nothing wrong here. He voiced his opinion, (kudos to him, for daring to do so in a "zoo" community!!) and got sabled down, with words like "disgusting", "users" "negative" and so on. How on earth is this -philia EVER gonna get socially accepted, if we cant even stop lableing eachother? If we cant live together in peace in a zoo forum? LadyR
Please help keep this site free by visiting our site sponsors - click on the banned below and have a look at their sites.
lady r,thank you although i feel i do not need no defense for the way i feel,we are all in this forum because we have sex with our animals or enjoy watching other people have sex with them its that simple,wether we do it out of love or not is a persons own preferance i do appreciate this forum be cause i can give my opinions tell my stories on a subject i have kept to myself for years i used to think i was the only person who did this sort of thing now we seem to be all over the world ,and even though we have our differances we have one thing in common
bighorse, it was not a defence reply, actually. It was a reply to the post in general, and in particulary to those who has replied in a not so nice manner (not only this time around but before as well). It was also a reminder to not judge anyone and for seeing zoophilia as so much better than beastiality, when it is really only lables that the outside community has put on us.I also wanted the members to see that there is a reason for all shit that happends in the world - it serves as an example when the people in here cant even keep their peace.I hope that cleared up my somewhat "wollen" 1st reply LadyR
LadyR, what you are saying makes so much sense...as long as we keep fightingeach-other [zoo v.s. bestialist] theres no way we can ever band together to stop society from so easily destroying us one by one!
HR, I know full well that there are r*pists out there committing atrocious acts of cruelty in their quest for sexual satisfaction with animals. Having sex with animals without regard for their wellfare and consent is morally reprehensible. Somewhat less reprehensible but more common is neglect. Neglect is abuse, raising a dog trapped in a kennel all of its life, not giving him or her the vet care and food they need... these things are all abuse and are also morally wrong.The simple act of having sex with animals however, is not.In a human-animal partnership, the bulk of the responsibility rests with the human, for he posesses the "gift of reason." We have the power and responsibility to shape every aspect of their lives in a positive manner, and we have the power and repsonsibility to behave appropriately in a given sexual situation. That's as far as it goes in my opinion. When a person brings any animal into their lives, they are taking on an enormous responsibility to take care of that animal. They do not have to love every animal they own. And speaking of love, do you know what it is? Do you know if animals are even capable of it? Is your answer in the afirmative a belief (feeling) or a cold hard fact?If the definition of love itself is so fleeting how can we ask it of everyone who has sex with animals to be in love with every animal they f*ck?
LadyR: Like i said in my first post in this thread i've seen threads like this very very often over the time since im online and around zooboards. And ALL of them went this way, everyone thought he was right and the other one was wrong. And after some time those threads ended up in a flamewar between boths sides. I dont see that this thread is about to go the same way! There have been said some rough things - mostly by me - and i still stand in for what i said! But sofar i have allways tried to be polite and to keep this as a debate and not to let it turn into a flamewar...The behavior - to use a being, no matter if human or animal - of some people is disgusting to me! I've said this a couple of times allready and i will say it again. This is one reason - among a lot of others - why i despise humanity!! Yes im also a human and most of the time im sad about that...We wouldnt have this debate if it werent dogs we talk about but instead humans. What if he would do the same thing with women or men? How would we call him and people who do this? How would we treat them?I hate lables but they are nesecarry! Its the only way to seperate two groups from each other. Its done this way all over the world and like you said: in a perfect world this wouldnt be nesecarry but the world isnt perfect!And i dont want to be put into the same group like people who tread their animals like the way Bighorse does. Yes this might sound like im better but i aint! Im just different then he is! My life goes by other rules then his, i value other things then he does - i am different from him... And i KNOW that many people here and around the world see it the same way. All those threads i read over the time are a prove for that, if it wasnt the reason then those threads and the question would have never apeared!Besides, you mentiont "zoo"comunity... Well i think this is partly a zoophiliaforum (or alteast this little place of the forum itself is, its even named Zoophilia ) Yes, i agree he deserves cudos for saying what is on his mind. Everyone deserves it who is not affraid to do... Sadly history shows us that those people mostly die or disapear from the surface of earth...Anyways, many have given a description of what "Zoophilia" and "Beastility" means, many agree that the first is the love for a animal and the second is the act of having sex. Well to me Love and Sex go hand in hand, like i said in all of my posts here Sex is to me the finaly and most powerfull way to express love. Therefore its still love... But i guess we can debate weeks or even months about this point. Some time ago i found the rules of Z-E-T-A - Zoophiles for Ethical Treatment of Animals. And their rules very much fit to my believes about Zoophilia and the way i live it. I think that a real zoo thinks first about his animal lover, and if he/she is having fun is allright and secondly about his own pleasure. A zoophile takes pleasure out of the pleasure of his animal lover, to me that is the way i allways lived and allways will live... For those of you who care for this i will post the rules:1. Treat your animal with the same respect that you want to be treated with2. Consider the welfare of your animal partner as important as your own3. Remember the welth of your animal is more important then your desire for sexual pleasure4. Help those who have questions with your knowledge but dont abet someone to zoophilia5. Dissuade those who are looking for a 'sexual kick' from sex with animals6. Fight against the sexual exploitation of animals for financial profit7. Fight against those who abuse animals and those who abet others to doSadly i couldnt find a english version of those rules so i had to translate them from German into english. If you want i can post a link to the original rules in german...As for getting accepted by society if cant even accept each other. All in all we are just humans! Its sad but its true! Its our nature to act like that towards things we dont understand (and like i said in my second post [im not sure but i think it was my second...] i dont understand how someone can act like that) Atleast we arnt able to lead wars here or sooner or later we would start to fight agains each other (another point why i despises humanity...)Besides, zoophilia isnt better then beastiality - its just different and it they are lables given to us by the society which just dont wants to understand. IMHO i doestn matters if we fight agains each other, they will bring us down one by one if they get the chance. Aganin i say it depends on what you value how you live and for what you live!I agree with you that dogs do hump dead things, its their way to musterbate. If we couldnt reach down there with our hands we woul also find other ways to get of. Is this a reason why we should say they arnt able to love...And i also agree that some people might love one today and in two or three years they cant anymore. Its sad but thats reality, yes, but do i have to like it? No i dont think so. Its not impossibel to find the right one right away on the frist date or on the second! I found my first mate and greates love in the same second i saw her for the first time! There are many here who had a similar expiereance... Yes, some poeple need to have many partners before they find the perfect one. I can only agree on that, a recent happening just showed that to me again! Im not able to say anything against those facts And i dont even want to try to!Tomokato: Yes i know what love is. I expiereanced it before and i expierance it again now, im in love with a dog and i was before. The kind of love he gives me is the only i know, i dont know the love between two humans cause i never had any human lovers in my life. I think animals are able to love, the same way we are. They just lack the ability to express it in the way we can. A dog is happy when you come home from work after he had to be alone for a long time. Is this love? Yes it is, its a kind of love the dog is able to show. If he would be a human he would greet you at the door, shake your hand or give you a welcom kiss.A dog cant like any other animal, he only has his few ways to express his love towards you and other people.But what is love? Im pretty sure humanity trys to find this out since its able to think! Neither i nor everyone else on this board could tell you what love is exactly! Some might say its a chemical thing, chemicals and hormos are spread in you body to make you happy and care for a special person - like a mother will (or atleast should) defend her child and care for it no matter what happens. Or like a lover will (or atleast should) care and defend his lover at all costs. Some will say its a way to protect the possible mother or father of your possible children from harm...To me love is a feeling, i dont seek a way to explain it nor do i want to let others tell me... I think it should be up to everyone on his own to find out what love is!Again, i dont demand that everyone should love the animal/human he/she has sex with, this would be plain impossibel. Humans arnt able to do that, nor am animals... And i know that humans are animals, we only deny it to us and everyone around us! But still we show so many similaritys to animals...Again im sorry if anyone feels atackt or bashed by what i write and wrote, but its the way i am and think! And i cant change who i am...
I agree with a lot of Honeyraptor's comments. It's important to differentiate who's who in the zoo-stew! I mean we've got a lot of different people on this planet in the entire zoo-community's melting pot, all with varying ideas of how things are/should be, which is perfectly fine. I think though that there are those self-proclaimed "zoos" out there who are purely bestialists (those who have no love for the animals they fu**) and tend to "sour" the stew if you know what I mean. It gives a very bad rep to the true zoophile community, and provides nifty targets of focus for the media/anti-zoo community to zoom in on and say to the public "...see? THIS is what zoophiles do to animals! SEX is all they care about...they're nothing but sexual predators!!!".I don't think it is (or should be anyway) a matter of splitting up into different camps over simply the way we think about things. I do believe, however, that it is important to discriminate between those who harm animals out of sexual frustration and those who care for their animals' well-being. We all may have varying beliefs on this, that and the other, but whether you are a moralist or any other kind of -ist, I think what being a "zoophile" comes down to is one thing is...your animal's feelings and quality of life.In my own personal view, it would have to be both how the individual feels as well, not just how they act towards them. But that's just me. In reality, and within the realm of plain common sense(which isn't always all that common) how you treat another being, non-human and human alike, affects them. Many of the animals we zoophiles love/are attracted to (dogs, horses, etc) are SOCIAL animals, and SEX is NOT the only form of social activity they crave. It is a known fact that canines, out of EMOTIONAL frustration/lack of attention/love, will resort to sexual-release by humping and things of the sort. I myself have seen it many times. Many breeds of dogs also are very driven to PLEASE their people. No matter what it is. If they get the clue from you that you like it when they lick you or hump you, then that is the behavior they will continue, even when they dont really feel up to it...unless, that is, you indicate to the dog/animal early on that they don't have to do anything they don't want to do (except when it comes to a few things, for their own safety). If you have a Dutch Shepherd or a Malenois, for example, you have a VERRRRRYY intense, work-driven animal who desperately wants and NEEDS a job in life. And if you indicate to that dog that his "job" is to fu** as many girls as he can as often as he can, well...he's going to do the best damn fu**ing job he/she can do at just that (hence, the famous Dutch Shepherd movies)! Regardless of whether or not he/she really wants to. My point in this is...a "zoophile" is at least compassionate enough and cares enough about the animal(s) to respect animal's feelings and show them that their wants are just as important by using respective body language to "ask" the animal (rather than physically coorsing, or forcing by going right for the goods) if they really want to, and if not, BACKING OFF...and go jack off alone in the corner somewhere. A "zoo" cares enough to not take advantage of an emotionally-frustrated dog, cares enough to learn about the animal, their wants, their needs..so as not to break trust or create mentally/emotionally unhealthy habits within the animal. If your animal is craving love (and they all do!) and the only form of love and caring attention you are giving him/her is through sex, then that is the channel they will go through in order to get what they are truly seeking from you (love), as a pacifier--it's plain animal psychology. All of us animals crave love and attention. But if a purely-sexual relationship is the only form of "love" you ever show your animal(s) and your main purpose in having the animal(s) in your life is for sexual gratification, then you are a "bestialist", by definition of the word. If all you ever do and care about is what kind of hole you can stick your di*k into or what kind of di*k you can stick into your hole with every animal you can get your hands on, then you are, by definition of the word, a sexual predator. In either case, NOT a zoophile (by actual definition of the word). If you say you're a zoophile, do your actions meet your words. If so, fine. Your a zoophile. Pure and simple. Yes, this debate HAS gone on for years because there's a lot of "grey area" between the two. But what it all comes down to and what decides it all is the answer to these questions: What is the quality of life your animal(s) living with you? Is he/she truly happy and content? If you think they're content, how do you really know for sure?All I'm getting at here is that it's not about YOU or ME. It's about the animals. Period.
WH, I think you miss the mark somewhat. Your use of the word Bestialist seems to suggest that you are not one. That would mean you do not have sex with animals.Bestiality is having sex with animals. Zoophilia is the love of animals.Bestialists commit bestiality.Zoophiles express zoophilia.You can be one without being the other (they are not mutually exclusive) or you can be both.Most of the pubic hears news stories involving bestialists who, in addition to having sex with aniamls, abuse them whether it be r*pe, mutilation, killing or otherwise disregarding the animal's well being and or consent. That's what gives 'having sex with animals' (bestiality) a bad name.I don't believe for a second that this is all "we" are up against. In my experience there are quite a few arguments against having sex with animals and anyone who tries to explain themselves will run into something like this: 1. "Can't you see it's just wrong?"2. "They are dirty animals: dogs roll in dead things and eat poop, how can you kiss and have sex with something like that? You might get a disease or something."3. "It's against the law. Surely there's some merit to that. You don't want to be thrown in jail do you?"4. "It's socially unacceptable. Surely people en masse must know what they are talking about... you don't want to be socially ostracized do you?5. "There's such a power dynamic, you give them food, water, shelter, attention... they are so eager to please, they'd do anything... It's wrong to take advantage of the power dynamic for your own gratification."6. "They are like children, unable to consent and completely dependant upon you for everything. People who have sex with animals are just like pedophiles."7. "It's against religion. By committing an act of bestiality, you are going against god's word, you don't want to burn in hell do you?"8. "There's a hierarchy to life. God - Humans - Higher Animals (Dogs, Horses etc.) - Lower Animals (Sponges, snails etc.) - Plants - Bacteria. There is an order to all things. Lowering yourself to a lower sphere goes against nature. You were not meant to have sex with someone outside of your sphere."Needless to say WH, it's an uphill battle. Attaching a negative connotation to bestiality as you do by calling it a purely sexual relationship will not help and in truth is not really the definition people en masse work with (see above or consult your local dictionary.)Notice you can find quite a bit of your diatribe against "bestialists" in there. Consider the idea of the power dynamic. Dogs are eager to please, they are not as intelligent as us humans when it comes to context so it would be easy for a human to abuse that power dynamic and take advantage of the situation for their own gratification. Of course, coercion really disregards consent which brings us back to the definition of r*pe doesn't it? Bestialist don't by definition coerce animals into having sex with them. We all know animals can give consent. You can ask if they are in the mood, and visa versa (though when they ask, it seems to be more of a command than a careful approach to the subject) and there's nothing wrong with that. If a human and animal engage in sex with one another and they are both consenting to it, then I don't see how you can have a problem with their relationship based on that fact alone.HR: I think those are great sayings to live by as a zoo:"1. Treat your animal with the same respect that you want to be treated with2. Consider the welfare of your animal partner as important as your own3. Remember the welth of your animal is more important then your desire for sexual pleasure4. Help those who have questions with your knowledge but dont abet someone to zoophilia5. Dissuade those who are looking for a 'sexual kick' from sex with animals6. Fight against the sexual exploitation of animals for financial profit7. Fight against those who abuse animals and those who abet others to do"It doesn't say anything here about love though and I think bestialists don't necessarily fall outside of these axioms.Do you consider yourself to be a bestialist HR? Do you have sex with animals? That last fact alone is what society focuses on most and is what will get you into trouble should you try and force your way out in society. There is no distinction in the minds of the public between people who have sex - and people who have sex and love.As I was being groomed this morning by my four legged malamute-mix partner, I thought to myself: Is this her way of expressing love? Do I love her? Do we love one another the same way? By your own words, I think you would be hard pressed to differentiate between love and obsession.I think, rather than attributing a human trait to her behavior (since she isn't human,) I'll let her speak for herself... the ways she expresses her bond (what ever that is) toward me are many, varied and often subtle. They seem to be expressions of familiarity, family and pleasure. She is possessive of me, and her trust is not easily won by a stranger. She is selective in who and how she gives her attention. I am obviously a part of her pack-thinking, a part of her family, someone she trusts, someone she seeks the company of and pleasure from, and someone in her mind, who is predictable and dependable. I do not think this constitutes "love" in the strict sense, but in my romantic mind, it seems to qualify as a kind of love and that is satisfying enough for me. There's another dog here who I intimately interact with who expresses some of the same things, the mutual grooming nuzzling and cuddling... -familiarity, family and pleasure seeking... and I gladly reciprocate. It's clear somehow that his bond with me does not run as deep. I have seen him express these same things to a complete stranger he likes. Puzzling is it not? At the very least it is not as unique to him as it is to her. And I would have to say I do not feel as deeply attached with him as I do with her. I feel the same way toward him as I do towards a friend or buddy, but toward her I feel as though we are lovers.There is a difference in my relationship between both animals, and yet in both relationships we've committed acts of bestiality. Thus, by definition, I am a bestialist. Oddly enough, my love of her qualifies me as a zoophile aswell.
Sorry to go off topic here but HOLY SH** TOMO! *LONG* time no type!Hobbes
QUOTE (LadyRottweiler @ Jun 15 2004, 10:34 AM) *sigh* I have a complete feeling of deja-vu here. Yes, this discussion has been up before - several times. And yes, it has ended with people taking an "holier than thou" position, and yes, it has actually almost ended with people getting banned for flaming other members.First; animals having sex with other animals, do they love eachother? With a few exceptions, there are no such thing as monogamy between animals. Second, its fully possible to have sex with an animal, and the animal have great pleasure as well as the human, without any love from the human, nor the animal. Some dogs will hump everything, even "dead" things like chairs and trees and so on....Is it love that makes the animal do this? I doubt it If we transfer this to human relationships; In an ideal world one would find ones soul mate at first try - but its not an ideal world now, is it? Many need to experiment for a while to find out f.ex. if they are gay and so on. Many bad marriages would have been avoided if more people took their time to figure out their sexuality BEFORE getting married. There is also a matter of not being compatible in bed, simply. How would you find out if you dont try? So its not allways a question of a quick "wham, bam thank you ma'm" and anyone that has some years of experience and life wisdom knows this. My best friend says; "you have to kiss a lot of frogs before you find your prince", and she is right. People change their ideals, they develope their personalities and the kind of person you would want when you are 20 may not be the one you want when you are 30.THAT said; I hate seeing animals hurt in any way. I have basically grown up with dogs, and I love them. BUT - I WOULD NEVER ever put my self as a judge over people that have a different view on how to practise sex with their animals, as long as the animal is not hurt, nor coerced into something. Therefore, IMHO, bighorse is doing nothing wrong here. He voiced his opinion, (kudos to him, for daring to do so in a "zoo" community!!) and got sabled down, with words like "disgusting", "users" "negative" and so on. How on earth is this -philia EVER gonna get socially accepted, if we cant even stop lableing eachother? If we cant live together in peace in a zoo forum? LadyR Well said Lady R people taking a ...holier than thou...position is what lead me to start this post in the first placeThat said... some great comments have been made that will help new comers There is no right and wrong here we are all equalI was unsure what to call myself and would have to say that im proud to be a zoophile and i am also just as proud to be a beastialistI have loved an animal more deeply then i can describe yet i have also been waking through a padock and had sex with a mare that i had never met before
Please help keep this site free by visiting our site sponsors - click on the banned below and have a look at their sites.
My intention here is not to stir any kind of defensiveness or make myself (or any group) out to be holier than thou, as thowra stated. I have ONE concern and one concern only. The animals involved. That is IT. Plain and simple.The reason I'm so concerned about others inner-feelings toward their animals is quite simply because--and correct me if I'm wrong at this--thoughts and feelings directly affect conscious and unconscious action. And our actions affect our animals, not just physically, but mentally as well. Now as far as your statements on the actual word "bestialist", yes I do agree with you. I have had sexual relations with canines in the past, therefore I did "commit" acts of "bestiality". I's have to say though, that MOST/ALL of us are bestialists. Fewer among us are "zoophiles". I don't know...maybe we should be calling ourselves "zoophilic-bestialists"...or maybe "best-o-philes". Kinda lengthy odd terminology but...olay. Fine.Although there is a bit of difference, evidently, between a bestialist and a zoophile, and I (and probably other as well) feel that the term zoophile describes a more love-based relationship with animals for this reason....bes·ti·al·i·ty n. pl. bes·ti·al·i·ties 1)The quality or condition of being an animal or like an animal. 2)Conduct or an action marked by depravity or brutality. 3)Sexual relations between a human and an animal. zo·o·phil·i·a also zo·oph·i·lism (z - f -l z m)n. 1)Affection or affinity for animals. 2)Erotic attraction to or sexual contact with animals. 3)Biology. A tendency to feed or grow on animal tissue. (nevermind that 3rd one *giggles*)Note the first definition under each word. As far as there being no difference what-so-ever between the two, I suggest you read over the above definitions (copied and pasted from Dictionary.com, since I was too lazy to get up and check my physical dictionary..wherever it is) #2 and #5 of the Z.E.T.A. proclaimation once more and really think about it for a while. And #6 as well. If one really does feel AND act that way toward their animal(s)..if there is no intention to obtain a "sexual kick" (or in other words: selfish, sexual self-gratification) and really does TREAT their non-human partner as they would want to be treated, and the animal is in-fact seen and treated as an EQUAL in the relationship...then YES, the person OBVIOUSLY feels at least some kind of significant love/affection for the animal(s)...which--by definition--makes him/her a "zoophile". Which, I believe, makes for a more fully content and all-around happy animal. But that's just me.I think that's all I'll say on the subject, since this worn-out topic tends to make many persons' eyes start to twitch..and/or bleed...from the redundancy of it all. And I personally need mine But just to reitterate on my little disclaimer, I don't speak with people to try and "make them good like me". I don't think/feel that way, because it's not about ME or YOU or anyone else. It's about the animals, and their quality of life. Period.
Please help keep this site free by visiting our site sponsors - click on the banned below and have a look at their sites.
WH, I think -now- our definitions and understanding of zoophile and bestialist are similar to one another's. I never asserted that they were one in the same. Merely that bestialists and zoophiles were not mutually exclusive groups. Yet, at the same time, they could be inclusive of one another, depending on the person and their behavior.The quoted 'ZETA rules to live by' do not exclude bestialists from being morally correct. My relationship with the male dog, as I described it above, is not a mutually loving relationship. I do care for him, for his well being; and I take pleasure in giving him pleasure. I am not a zoophile because of my relationship with him. If he was the only dog I ever interacted with, I would be simply a bestialist. It's splitting hairs yes, but it's important to understand so that "we" do not contribute to the negative connotations society already attributes to that word and to sex with animals in general.Basically, what it boils down to is that a person can care for an animal without actually being in love with him or her. TK
tomokato,pretty good statement,i guess i am a hardcore bestilalist i have had dogs for years mostly hounds and hunting dogs there are swap meets and trade days all over the country people sell dogs all the time this is how i got interested in sex with dogs when i was young i had coondogs and had sex with the females over the years there have been many unlike HR i never was in love with any of them it was pure lust ,i never forced any of them,mostly they where in season and very willing believe me they welcomed my advances and on occasin they werent my dogs there is nothing hotter than than a willing bitch if every one fell in love with there pets than there would be no puppies for sale
Personaly the thread was rather confusing at this late hour with loads of other things on my mind but this stuff is rather important for me!I realy don't want to judge people and I've got no bad feelings towards beastialist since I've been one! And bighorse I don't feel any grudge towards you at all. I can understand bestialist and when they take care for their pets and don't force them their's nothing wrong for me. But hearing the part where you said that you would sell them if you got bored with them or stuff , I seriously got angry and disappointed. This even has nothing to do with bestialist personaly it would make me feel like an abuser or pimp!You just don't trade animals becuz you get fed up them
That kind of talk saddens me deeply But i guess everyone is different.I just have a strong attachment to my gsd Sam, if he couldnt "perform" my feelings would not change. I think in that respect its me giving him what he needs and not the other way around.
kimbal&rotty sorry if i anger you ,but i have raised dogs and horses for years also have raised puppies i feel no qualms or guilt about selling them i know for some people having a dog is a great thing for them i have seen old ladies who thought the world of their pooches,i do not know if i am a zoo or a bestialist all i know is female animals turn me on espiacilly receptive ones .i do believe that people who turn to their pets for love and shun relationships with humans are probably protecting themselves from hurt as an animal cannot hurt your feelings, they are loyal and dependable . an added note kimbal do, you eat maet hamburger ,bacon or chicken also the dog food you feed your dog has meat by-products in it and an animal had to die for that ,i wiil get off the soap box
hehe, well hi there bighorse I'm sooo glad you replied! RealySo you say that zoophiles are a bunch of pathetic people who don't have the social skill or guts to deal with human relationships? Hmm, very interesting!And I don't understand what that last part is about. I'm not a vegetarian! So you think all zoophiles are tree hugging vegetarians? I love dogs, not chickens or whatever a burger is made of I don't care that you don't love your dogs at all! And you can sell as much dogs as you want.BUT if you just buy or sell dogs when they are/aren't in heat so you're just ... a pimp! Sorry to say that but well a dog isn't something you sell or buy for a week of sex But well maybe I'm the one who should feel dirty after calling you that, sorry!
kimbal,this seems to be an ongoing debate i will try to settle something so you dont get the wrong idea i do not buy dogs just to have sex with them i buy dogs to hunt with ,also i raise reg. labs and if they happen to be females all the better i bought one lab female who was a very horny dog she was humping my other female and my male she loved to be played with .but she was a very aggressive dog and hyper not a good lab trait i had bought her to raise pups ,but because of her bad genes i took her to a shelter where i knew she would be spayed and she went to a good home ,i still miss her as she really enjoyed sex, end of story peace be with you friend
Please help keep this site free by visiting our site sponsors - click on the banned below and have a look at their sites.
Well then I sincerly apologize myself towards you if that's the case! I thought some bad things, maybe becuz you were quite vague in your first reply.I don't see anything wrong with what you are doing. Not all people who have sex with their pets love them and that's totaly fine for me! As long as they care for them an drespect them we're cool as far as you told me that seem sto be the case so ... greetingz
Last modified on July 5th, 2009 | Zoodestiny.com | © 2003-2005 - All Rights Reserved