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So.. Once upon a time it was unthinkable that two guys or two girls would be attracted to each other.. Through years of conditioning society, it's now mostly acceptable. How long do you think it will be until people accept bestiality on the level of homosexuality today?
oh, its a nice idea but I dont think it will happen in my life time.
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QUOTE (wolf190 @ Feb 10 2010, 10:41 PM) oh, its a nice idea but I dont think it will happen in my life time. It's a shame but I happen to agree with you.
I will add on a more positive note that I do what I can to help out. I'm a bit more open then most of us and always try to speak out for alternative rights and acceptance.
It may happen to some extent in my lifetime, assuming I have at least 60 more years in me.
QUOTE (asel34 @ Feb 11 2010, 04:04 AM) So.. Once upon a time it was unthinkable that two guys or two girls would be attracted to each other.. Through years of conditioning society, it's now mostly acceptable. How long do you think it will be until people accept bestiality on the level of homosexuality today? Actually, for thousands of years it was okay to be fall for the same gender.Likewise, many ancient cultures had orgiastic, ritualized and, sometimes, religious practices that involved sex with animals. (Thank you, Hani Miletski!)It's only been in the last 2000 years or so that younger religious traditions and customs became more discriminatory towards the diversity of people and sexuality.Perhaps in another 2000 people will be over it again and back to the old ways.....
Maybe someone here some make an anonymous call to the ACLU
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QUOTE (asel34 @ Feb 10 2010, 09:04 PM) So.. Once upon a time it was unthinkable that two guys or two girls would be attracted to each other.. Through years of conditioning society, it's now mostly acceptable. How long do you think it will be until people accept bestiality on the level of homosexuality today? It's taken thousands of years to ingrain it into society that homosexuality is a bad thing in the first place.I have something to put the blame on it, but it's something I can't post in general.
this is like a duplicate thread 6431 times - but hey - whatdo I know about unresolved issues
QUOTE (southflorida @ Feb 11 2010, 11:28 AM) this is like a duplicate thread 6431 times - but hey - whatdo I know about unresolved issues *grin* Quick, let's start a group therapy thread and work our way through it. Or an affinity group to fight for zoo rights?Or we could just move to a country where its legal to be who we are and just be happy....... *nuzzles Southy*
QUOTE (Starmaster @ Feb 11 2010, 08:26 AM) I have something to put the blame on it, but it's something I can't post in general. You know what Star. I think I know exactly what you mean. And it has alot to answer for.
I'm not sure bestiality will ever be the new gay. But I can see it easily becoming the new black, but only during fall and winter.
QUOTE (energydog @ Feb 11 2010, 06:17 PM) I'm not sure bestiality will ever be the new gay. But I can see it easily becoming the new black, but only during fall and winter. Alas I don't believe it will be even tolerated, much less accepeted oe close to legal in my lifetime. Good thing I have a large closet!
Ten years ago, I might have said there might be a tiny chance, but if you haven't noticed, the world in general has taken a sharp turn to the right in "Values" since 2000. (eg, internet censorship is popping up all over the so called "free" world.")When will bestiality become the new gay?When Hell freezes over. (ie when the monotheistic religions disappear)JMHO.
QUOTE (alicebotts @ Feb 11 2010, 11:08 PM) When will bestiality become the new gay?When Hell freezes over. (ie when the monotheistic religions disappear)JMHO. Well then there is hope indeed. Remember Don Henley of the Eagles once said he wouldn't return to the band until "Hell freezes over". Then a few years passed, and lo and behold, the clouds parted the sun shown down to reveal that Hell had indeed frozen over. So don't lose all hope and never say never.
I think it will be a very, very long time before that happens. I don't expct to lie long enough to see it.LTD
Interracial marriages, gay marriage, and cross-religious unions are still frowned upon today. Slavery still exists. Human trafficking still exists. All these inequalities pale in comparison to inter-species issues. Until we are able to resolve the differences we've created within our own species, I doubt we can even begin to comprehend a normalization of zoophilia.But I also agree that a wider angle perspective can be employed here. In ancient times it was customary for a man to have a wife and an underage gay lover; that was just how it was done. Beastiality was common and not taboo. So I'd wager that in another few hundred thousand years when society turns over once again things could change.The one bottom line that I will hold to is an extreme disbelief that any positive resolution will come about in my lifetime. Sorry!
The major problem faced is that homosexuality is done between two humans who could choose their course of actions. To get this lifestyle accepted first you need to convince the vast majority of people that the animals in question wants to be involved too and that is something that is never accepted no matter what you say to people or evidence you bring to their attention.If there was a huge study done that once and for all, without question showed that people who have sex with animals are doing so with willing (and eager) partners then the debate may be started which would lead to a change in attitudes, but that is a huge shot in the dark as such a study is not only unlikely to ever be commisioned, but also any result like that would likely be supressed.
Well bestiality is discriminated partly because it is sometimes linked with "witchcraft" and "magic" in the old society...
QUOTE (VulpesVulpes @ Feb 13 2010, 04:51 PM) Well bestiality is discriminated partly because it is sometimes linked with "witchcraft" and "magic" in the old society... It's largely always linked with some form of anthropomorphic religious practice in pre-Xtian cultures, but it wasn't until Judaism and Xtianity influenced the Greeks, Romans, and the Ancient Near East that it became an issue. The most modern argument I have heard is not based on religion, but on the animal rights activists who say that it violates the free will of an animal. The counter argument that there are animals who choose to interact sexually with humans (which I find a valid argument!) is then usually countered with a diatribe about how it's a conditioned response (trained) in the animals because of human stimulus and that animals don't pursue sex with humans of their own volition. Normally people who make the latter argument are left dumbstruck when I have asked them if they have ever gone swimming with a dolphin (dolphins are NOTORIOUSLY sexual creatures and well-known for trying to mate with humans swimming with them - in fact, a friend of mine who went to swim with the dolphins was told to be prepared for the possibility of a dolphin in nature getting frisky). It's also fun to ask them if they have ever seen people train dogs to masturbate against their legs (seriously, most people have to train their dogs NOT to slam their cocks against a stranger's leg - which says that its instinctive and desired on the part of the animal to do it in the first place.)Anyway, this is actually a nice thread even though I know its been done before. Pax,Wolf
Good post Wolf. 10 for you. The animal rights people are just useless most of the time. They base their arguments on their own moral beliefs instead of any attempt to genuinely see both sides. Or any real evidence to back themselves up.As you mentioned most people have to train their dogs not to hump peoples legs and not to do sexual things. Which if anything makes the resulting lack of sexual interaction a conditioned response. But as that doesn't fit with the average persons moral compass they won't listen to it.
Right back atchya, stud! Exactly, its purely about *their* concepts of morality, and not anything more than that. I think I need to go and read some Henry Rollins.
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Cetaceaphilia is quickly becoming the new gay, especially with the scientific journal pressing governments around the world to recognize many species of cetacean as "non-human persons", and the release of Wet Goddess and the flood of people admitting cetaceaphilia because of that, but I'm not sure about zoophilia.The moral dilemma for general society is allot stronger.
At the current rate it will happen, but it will take a long time. The more we band together and support eachother the sonner it will happen. There are groups out there fighting for us and making it known that we are normal. But, all of this takes time and support. The 'old' gay didn't beacome the 'normal' gay by sitting back and letting it just happen. Guess it depends on how badly we want it....
Heres a link to another topic ont he forum about zoo-rights groups around..http://www.beastforum.com/index.php?showtopic=154224&st=0&
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It will be a long time before it is accepted. In fact countries are more into making it illegal rather than legal, take for example The Netherlands. In the past it was fine to have sex with an animal as long as there was no cruelty. Now it is illegal from what I have read.People who make the laws err on the side of caution. As it is impossible to determine whether the sex is consensual or not it is not allowed. If you train a dog to have sex with you does that make it consensual? Or is that forced? What if we misunderstand the way an animal communicates with us? Even us humans prefer less corporal punishment in our laws these days than 100 years ago. Most likely because it is seen as cruel, inhumane, etc. I think bestiality is viewed in the same light.It is extremely tough to get it legalised and I do not think it will ever happen in the majority of countries in the western world.
QUOTE (arc4500 @ Feb 20 2010, 11:39 PM) It will be a long time before it is accepted. In fact countries are more into making it illegal rather than legal, take for example The Netherlands. In the past it was fine to have sex with an animal as long as there was no cruelty. Now it is illegal from what I have read.People who make the laws err on the side of caution. As it is impossible to determine whether the sex is consensual or not it is not allowed. If you train a dog to have sex with you does that make it consensual? Or is that forced? What if we misunderstand the way an animal communicates with us? Even us humans prefer less corporal punishment in our laws these days than 100 years ago. Most likely because it is seen as cruel, inhumane, etc. I think bestiality is viewed in the same light.It is extremely tough to get it legalised and I do not think it will ever happen in the majority of countries in the western world. Using the Netherlands as reference isn't much use. They have introduced laws that make it illegal to publicly announce that you don't believe in god, and showing that you are homosexual is illegal too.Though I get your point. The fact that many animals that are subjected to zoophilia are not actually intelligent enough to understand it, so law cannot ethically legalize it, especially with the many abuse cases which happen involving bestiality, which are always thrust onto zoophilia too. In all though I think straight it more likely to be the new gay.
QUOTE (silent_51 @ Feb 21 2010, 03:24 AM) They have introduced laws that make it illegal to publicly announce that you don't believe in god, and showing that you are homosexual is illegal too. Wow that is some intense laws. Though I thought one of the main reasons that the Netherlands passed the law was to try and remove the connection between there and beastiality porn rather than any real moral or ethical reason. It just makes more impact for the law to be all encompassing.
Not in my life time or any other person on this site.
well before anything can be accepted it must go through many stages. first is disgust/denial, then comes humor, next is understanding, finally there is acceptanc which is the hardest stage to get to. bestiality is currently in the humor stage....thats just my view.
it is happening, slowly. will it be accepted anytime soon, like say, the next 25 years or so, not likely, but in time it will. I think what we will see first is increased tolerance, like with homosexuality, which went through a long phase of slowly gaining tolerance, before finally being accepted. I expect we'll see something similar, although more slowly.
I was at an AKC show and I saw that they had a vendor selling T-shirts which said "I kiss my dog on the mouth" They were selling like hot cakes. Many dog owner who would not call themselves a zoo, will freely state that they "LOVE" their dog and that they have a very special connection. From the definitions that I have been reading.... technically.... they are ZOO. You do not have to have sex with you dog in order to be a zoo. Now if someone wanted to take it one step further, are they having sex, or are they making love. I grew up understanding that their was big difference between the two.So if it were to become acceptable that would be the direction I would want to see it go. People are making love to their animals, not merely F*cking them.Later on after the taboo/stigmatism started to tarnish and fade, the line between f*ucking and making love would vanish too... I don't know. I am kind of a romantic though. I like the idea of making love
i would love to see that, but like many have said before me. i dont think it will happen
QUOTE (Nem Enforcer @ Feb 12 2010, 01:30 PM) The major problem faced is that homosexuality is done between two humans who could choose their course of actions. To get this lifestyle accepted first you need to convince the vast majority of people that the animals in question wants to be involved too and that is something that is never accepted no matter what you say to people or evidence you bring to their attention. I totally agree. The vast majority of homosexuals wouldn't want their sexuality compared to zoophilia. The two are in no way related. So trying to equate the two is pointless in my opinion.
QUOTE (silkythighs @ Mar 15 2010, 02:23 AM) QUOTE (Nem Enforcer @ Feb 12 2010, 01:30 PM) The major problem faced is that homosexuality is done between two humans who could choose their course of actions. To get this lifestyle accepted first you need to convince the vast majority of people that the animals in question wants to be involved too and that is something that is never accepted no matter what you say to people or evidence you bring to their attention. I totally agree. The vast majority of homosexuals wouldn't want their sexuality compared to zoophilia. The two are in no way related. So trying to equate the two is pointless in my opinion. That is very true. The only similarity at all between zoophilia and homosexuality is it is a sexual orientation that differs from the accepted norm. And it definitely differs more than most do
I don't really have a huge issue with it being compared to being gay.... I'm gay. To me Zoophilia is just another sexual orientation, which may or may not be shared by people who have additional sexual orientations as well. I just think it will take a complete change of moral and ethical codes to become fully acceptable. I suspect should we ever encounter alien life in the universe we'll find it becomes more acceptable to fuck different species..... after all, so many species, so many ways to dance.
There isnt much news about people marching for zoo rights. Maybe one day but i just dont see they public letting it happen
QUOTE (energydog @ Feb 11 2010, 04:57 PM)QUOTE (alicebotts @ Feb 11 2010, 11:08 PM) When will bestiality become the new gay?When Hell freezes over. (ie when the monotheistic religions disappear)JMHO. Well then there is hope indeed. Remember Don Henley of the Eagles once said he wouldn't return to the band until "Hell freezes over". Then a few years passed, and lo and behold, the clouds parted the sun shown down to reveal that Hell had indeed frozen over. So don't lose all hope and never say never.Not to mention, I think there's a Hell, Michigan..... It probably freezes every winter..... In all seriousness though, I doubt we'll see acceptance any time soon.
QUOTE (Feareous @ Feb 11 2010, 06:56 AM) Maybe someone here some make an anonymous call to the ACLU OMFG! I should totaly do that! lmfao jk, but I dont think it will happen in my life time, sorry, hun.
oh soon I hope lol.
keep dreaming for now, if zoophillia was in the face of the mainstream like homosexuality was / is maybe there might be some chance it seems to be increasing in the minds of many, I have often hear jokes about it and I think quietly to my self. "if they only knew"
This comparison has been made many times...and the result is the same: You're asking the wrong question.The question you should be asking yourself is:"When will society as a whole, and specifically all the individuals encompassed therein, finally be able to put aside their doubts, fears, judgemental opinions and unfounded assumptions so they can instead rely on simple common sense and good will towards their fellow men (and women), rather than stoop to hiding behind skewed social views which are made largely for political gain and to appease the bible-thumpers to make the decisions for them?"And the answer of course...is never.Human beings as a society will never change, and will never come to terms with things they don't consider "normal" or "right" or "morally correct" (as written in some book a couple of thousand years ago).They could if they wanted to...the problem is they simply don't want to. Sorry to be the dark and dismal pessimist of the thread, but...that's the cold truth as I see it. The entire basis of hope for acceptance - or even some level of understanding - rests upon society's willingness to accept and understand. Thus, there's not a chance in Hell (frozen or otherwise ) of it happening.
QUOTE (Nem Enforcer @ Feb 12 2010, 06:30 PM) The major problem faced is that homosexuality is done between two humans who could choose their course of actions. Homosexuality was once considered a mental disease and people could even be put into institutions for being gay. People didn't always think gays could choose their actions because they were thought to be mentally deficient. Obviously that has changed (in most countries).Honestly anyone who doesn't think animals can consent to sex has some serious denial issues. There are whole chapters in training books devoted to making your dog stop mounting and humping human beings- obviously they wouldn't express such a strong desire to do so if they didn't want sex. Even if the 'its just dominance' arguement is used you would have to consider that by relating to human beings as pack members instead of enemy predators or prey animals they are showing they consider us close enough to fall into rank together, and obviously that entails the rest of the social behaviors- play, challenging for rank, bonding, and sex as well.Everyone knows dogs try to have sex with people. The only hurdle is for them to realize it doesn't harm the dog in any way. Plus a dog with a human lover is much more likely to be taken very good care of and considered first in the long run rather than a pet that eventually gets boring to the owners and delegated to the backyard or simply ignored. I can't think of a single person other than myself who takes such good care of their dogs, feeds top quality food, brushes them, brushes their teeth daily, etc. It's a higher level of devotion than most people would care to match- now the only challenge is waiting for the public to someday recognize that.
Infact here in Sweden both homosexuality and beastiality was illegal, untill they realised that there can't be laws based on moral values. So the legalised them both! Alltough there is still a large ammount of people that works to make beastiallity illegal for the cause of animalcruelity.
Society is a bunch of sheep. They follow each other. So, for this to become accepted, a LARGE group of Zoos would have to go public so that the flock have someone to follow. There would be an uproar, a lot of talk about how "gross" or "perverse" it is. Churches would speak out against it. Many in the group would probably not be able to handle the exposure, pressure and negativity of it and would go back into hiding. The remaining might try to regroup but it'll be hard to find others to come into the group because of the previous backlash. And that would be the end of the movement for years. The same cycle would start again in the future and have a little more success but still end the same way. This will continue for decades (or more) until there is any chance of acceptance. By then I'll be long gone I'm afraid.
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I glad to be discrete,i do not want everyone to be messing around with our animals.I think most everyone into Zoophilia these days still have a great deal of respect for their animal partner in their lives.I was drawed into this lifestyle when i met a dog that kept wanting me after playing with him an there became a trust between the two of us.
well unfortunately for us, beastiality is more viewed as kind of rape of the animal, which sometimes it is, but most of the time it is not, unfortunately a lot of people don't see it that way.people see homosexuality as being a choice that both parties have made.
QUOTE (asel34 @ Feb 11 2010, 04:04 AM) So.. Once upon a time it was unthinkable that two guys or two girls would be attracted to each other.. Through years of conditioning society, it's now mostly acceptable. How long do you think it will be until people accept bestiality on the level of homosexuality today? Never
QUOTE (icho @ Feb 20 2011, 08:11 AM)Infact here in Sweden both homosexuality and beastiality was illegal, untill they realised that there can't be laws based on moral values. So the legalised them both! Alltough there is still a large ammount of people that works to make beastiallity illegal for the cause of animalcruelity.I think there may be a kernel of hope here. I understand that there are numerous threads on the board regarding similar topics, but this is the one I found first, so this is the one I’m posting on. The comparison of gay rights to zoo rights is a subject to which I have given some thought. I think it is interesting to speculate just how big a favor the gay rights movement may have done us, however inadvertently. During the big debates of the last few years over gay rights and gay marriage, the pro side argued for the principle that it was wrong to take away their rights to love, and implicitly to have sex with, the partner of their choice simply because their sexual preference was different. The anti side responded by arguing “what next, people and animals?” Of course what they meant was that since the principle was the same and the “rights” of people to be with animals was so clearly absurd, so was the “right” for people to be with those of the same sex. Well, that logic cuts both ways, and I say we take them at their word. Every year, the principal is being more firmly established in law that preference in partners is not a legitimate basis for legal restriction of choice. Once that is firmly in place, I think we CAN argue that it applies to us too. There will of course be the bogus “animal cruelty” and “consent” arguments, but if we ever get to the point that these are our primary roadblocks, we are well on our way. It is even possible that we may get some additional help from the gay rights community if they realize that their continued rights depend on maintaining intact the same principle that protects us.Sorry for being long winded, just a lot to get off my chest after a long silence.
That is an interesting theory though I don't think we will ever be able to hope for support from the gay community as a whole as many I think are scared that if they do show us support it will have a negative affect on their own missions for acceptance and equality, and I think that this is unfortunately true. I do think that if there is ever real intelligent debate going on that we could use some of the arguments that were used in these past struggles but we would more than likely be going it alone.
I'm gonna' go with. . . . Never
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