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It's never abuse if the animal shows signs that they want sex, if they're in heat, or if they are horny. The other day me and a buddy were making a movie project about a story of zoophilia ninjas. We used our own horses and when we were shooting, some people were trespassing because they "wanted to see the sights of the country side". They freaked out at what they saw and threatened to call the cops that we were abusing animals. The horses were in heat and they needed to be penetrated. We don't have any male horses so it was right to pleasure the horses. Because horses are a lot bigger than humans, it is wrong to say that having sex with a horny one is "abusing". Infact, if you really want a correct "abusive" senario, the horses would be considered to be abusing us .The good side of the story is that they never saw our faces because of our ninja outfits, and we later called the cops back on them for tresspassing. They had to pay a $120 fine for each person
Well, in terms of your title, yeah... I think a lot of people who have never seen an animal 'ask for sex' (and most of us here know, they can and WILL, sometimes very insistently! ) assume that we're performing selfish acts against the animals' will.that being said, you're awful lucky you got out of that the way you did. It may benefit you in the future to be more discreet in choosing the locations you choose to pleasure your partner(s). Being spotted can get you in real trouble. Just because they were forced to pay a fine once doesn't mean they won't go back to the police station and report you or your property, and then what a mess of paperwork that'd be.plus even i think it sounds a bit odd to tell someone that it's 'right to pleasure the horses' just because they're in heat. Perhaps another way of phrasing it may have made it sound nicer.Keep in mind that if you choose to be open about your inclination to have an intimate relationship with your animal in public then you also have to accept some responsibility as an ambassador for other zoos. you'll probably be the one and only beastialist/zoo they'll ever meet, best make that first impression a good one.either way, in the vein of the original topic, i do agree. after all, non-zoos tend to just associate the fact that bestiality is more or less entirely illegal with the assumption that it must horribly hurt the animal. such is life, i'm afraid...
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City folk who've obviously never been to a working farm or stable before. Aside from zooish motivations, some animals just have to have manual release or they go nutty. Don't they know that!?!
It was in a closed area with a lot of trees and forestry. We were trying to make it look like a japanese feudal-era setting. These people didn't really look like city folk to be honest. There's a small town close by and another average sized city the other direction. It looked like they came from the small town but me and my buddy had every right of privacy since we owned that part of the land.
If anyone has seen the infamous "Animal Passions" documentary, you will probably feel how I feel.There always seems to be some sort of fence (lol not a fencehopping scenario) between those on one side (us) and the people who think otherwise (them) which I like to call "The Boolean Society" and it exists everywhere. Dont like Marmite? Do you have to tell everyone that you dont?I could go on but this has been discussed a million times over and will never cease as long as there's a psychological fence in the way Personally I hope your project turns out to be a success!-tps
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I recently have been telling people about my zooplilactic lifestlye and one of my exgirlfriends said "you do know that's animal abuse, right?"At that point I reminded her that he's mounting me, driving his cock into my ass, and that afterwards we usually laid together on the couch or in bed and slept together.It was at that point I asked her if it was abuse when I was doing that to her? Which then she very rudely reminded me that my relationship was illegal.
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This is so funny, maybe soon there will be rumors of ninja animal-sex cults.*Old-Timer voice* "Yep we used to have them satanic animal-sex cults, but them ninja animal-sex cults chased them all out..."
Lordy, lordy...... That'll keep Homeland Security tied up in knots for years!
The other day, our spayed basset hound was rather frustrated from horniness. She rarely does this, but happened to be horny for some reason at the time. Being so kind and loving to his pet, JP stopped what he was doing, giving a little of his time to help her with her needs. Was it abusive to help a frustrated dog get rid of sexual tension by fingering her? No, of course not. The big dopey smile on that dog's face as she lay in her bed after getting off was proof enough. And that constantly wagging tail? Yeah, tell me she is being abused. In fact, their relationship is not a sexual one. They are best friends, and always been. But when we make the commitment to care for a dog, so many people forget that one important need (and think that spaying/neutering, a so-called "fix", is the solution.) And it saddens me that so many pet owners would not have bothered to help their pet out with that need because of fear of what society might think.
People label it abuse because they don't have another term for it...and because in many places, the LAW doesn't differentiate between beating an animal and beating an animal OFF...Yes, there is much ignorance out there to deal with, but be sure you know what you're saying when you have to reply to them...transferring your own attitudes and needs onto an animal who can't possibly be motivated the same way only adds fuel to the fire...
QUOTE (GivingHead @ Aug 22 2008, 02:22 PM) The good side of the story is that they never saw our faces because of our ninja outfits, and we later called the cops back on them for tresspassing. They had to pay a $120 fine for each person Soooo, your faces were covered, but whose Name was on the complaint ?
The "property owners"."We never saw any Ninjas, just these drunken nutcakes on our property. I'm pretty sure I saw them doing mushrooms........ "
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QUOTE (missywolf @ Aug 23 2008, 05:39 PM) The other day, our spayed basset hound was rather frustrated from horniness. She rarely does this, but happened to be horny for some reason at the time. Being so kind and loving to his pet, JP stopped what he was doing, giving a little of his time to help her with her needs. Was it abusive to help a frustrated dog get rid of sexual tension by fingering her? No, of course not. The big dopey smile on that dog's face as she lay in her bed after getting off was proof enough. And that constantly wagging tail? Yeah, tell me she is being abused. In fact, their relationship is not a sexual one. They are best friends, and always been. But when we make the commitment to care for a dog, so many people forget that one important need (and think that spaying/neutering, a so-called "fix", is the solution.) And it saddens me that so many pet owners would not have bothered to help their pet out with that need because of fear of what society might think. Yeah, they will hire certain vets to help "relieve" sexual tensions. Or so I've heard that they do that for non-neutered dogs. Strange that it's perfectly accepted to get off a dog because you're a vet, and not otherwise.
Oh, and 10 points to GivingHead, buckup, and missywolf for their insightful comments. And buckup, great job on the avatar.
QUOTE (missywolf @ Aug 23 2008, 05:39 PM)In fact, their relationship is not a sexual one. They are best friends, and always been. But when we make the commitment to care for a dog, so many people forget that one important need (and think that spaying/neutering, a so-called "fix", is the solution.) Hmmmm, thats an interesting thought. Since many people refer to spaying/neutering their pets as getting them "fixed", do they consider non-spayed or non-neutered pets to be "broken"?
QUOTE (silverwolf768 @ Aug 24 2008, 05:07 PM) Hmmmm, thats an interesting thought. Since many people refer to spaying/neutering their pets as getting them "fixed", do they consider non-spayed or non-neutered pets to be "broken"? Good point and great avatar. 10 points for you. I mean, really great avatar.To make it worse, they even have fake nutsacks that someone can put on the dog after neutering, for those that want to keep the look. Whatever..
QUOTE (missywolf @ Aug 23 2008, 08:39 AM) And it saddens me that so many pet owners would not have bothered to help their pet out with that need because of fear of what society might think. Yea, me too... however, I think with some convincing you could sway a fellow pet owner to at least accept you doing this for your pet. Which might be a good place to start explaining if you were ever caught.
QUOTE (silverwolf768 @ Aug 24 2008, 12:07 PM) QUOTE (missywolf @ Aug 23 2008, 05:39 PM)In fact, their relationship is not a sexual one. They are best friends, and always been. But when we make the commitment to care for a dog, so many people forget that one important need (and think that spaying/neutering, a so-called "fix", is the solution.) Hmmmm, thats an interesting thought. Since many people refer to spaying/neutering their pets as getting them "fixed", do they consider non-spayed or non-neutered pets to be "broken"? Ha! You can't fix something that isn't broken! as for the neuticles (fake nuts), I think people get those because they feel guilty for taking away a part of their pet.
QUOTE (missywolf @ Aug 24 2008, 10:56 PM) as for the neuticles (fake nuts), I think people get those because they feel guilty for taking away a part of their pet. Hmm, I wonder if those neuticles have the same texture or taste as the real thing.
QUOTE (missywolf @ Aug 24 2008, 04:56 PM)QUOTE (silverwolf768 @ Aug 24 2008, 12:07 PM) QUOTE (missywolf @ Aug 23 2008, 05:39 PM)In fact, their relationship is not a sexual one. They are best friends, and always been. But when we make the commitment to care for a dog, so many people forget that one important need (and think that spaying/neutering, a so-called "fix", is the solution.) Hmmmm, thats an interesting thought. Since many people refer to spaying/neutering their pets as getting them "fixed", do they consider non-spayed or non-neutered pets to be "broken"? Ha! You can't fix something that isn't broken! Bah! I was gonna come back with that one! I think I might use that for my next dog:"So, you gonna get him/her fixed?""Why? Is he/she broken?""Well, no, but...""Well if he/she ain't broken, why fix him/her?"
Actually, People, the HSUS and PETA Both consider an un-neutered pet to be " Broken "...Any of y'all want to throw a monkey-wrench at these busy-bodies who've nothing better to do than mind other folks' business for them? And even better, in a way that won't point a finger at our little " Hobby"?Whoa, folks...I see too many hands to count It seems that currently with all the fuss over oil-drilling in the coastal areas of the US, both of these worthy Charities (Spelled Political Action Committee) have been asked for input into the environmental impact of such activity...However...Federal Law in the US states that no Non-Profit Organization m'say voice opinions on political questions nor offer advice to an elected or appointed Official of Federal or Local Governments unless said NPO wants to lose its NPO status and start paying taxes on the funds they acquire...Sooooooooo...Write your Congressman and Senator, telling them how outraged you are over such activities by NPO's...Tell them you saw it in the papers or on the Net...it's been covered in both places recently...Maybe we can Give those boobs something to really be upset about...and it IS an Election year...<grinnnn, one ea.;wicked, evil, type V>
mm...i talked to friend about beastuallity..she called it abuse, cuz they dont talk to you,,and show there love the same way...it anoyed me,,we fought....I only consider it abuse if the animals too small,,or if theres use of drugging,and starvation,or anything hurting the animal....if the animal makes the moves,is fine and liking of it i cant...i belive people are allways gonna see zoophilia as animal abuse...ya go on youtube/myspace videos and people complain on expert weightpulling,agility,spring poles as abuse too...i try to inform,,but its hard,,and something that cant necissary be helped
If it weren't for understanding people like us, I don't know how a lot of zoophilia persons could handle keeping secrets from society. I guess all that matter is our animal friends know that we care and aren't afraid to please them and show that we love them.
wow, saddlebum, that was way off-topic. As for PETA, they only want pets neutered so they do not reproduce and cease to exist...so screw what they think about everything. QUOTE "So, you gonna get him/her fixed?""Why? Is he/she broken?""Well, no, but...""Well if he/she ain't broken, why fix him/her?" If anybody dare asks me or tells me to get my Roy "fixed", I'm going to say that. Because if there is any word in this language of ours that I can't stand it's that one. If you look up "fix" in the dictionary, the definition I think that comes closest (besides the last one, which is to castrate): make (something) permanent or static in nature Yeah...you permanently destroy an entire system of the animal.
Well, Missy, try as I might, I don't see where it's off-topic, since I addressed the Mind-set of people who advocate and in fact LEGISLATE for " All Spayed, All Neutered" Governmental Policy <since they actually wrote the Bill that Pa. enacted this spring, so those poor, overworked Congressmen and Senators in that illustrious State didn't have to . The very idea of castrating male or female dogs as a prerequisite to ownership, or as a punishment for a vaguely described " abuse " appalls me... I call it as I see it...and for most of the other " common-sense" reasons, it doesn't work...Take responsibility for your critters or don't take them at all...if this means a leash or a fence, so be it...if it means keeping them in during fertile periods, so be it...and if yours is male that means attention to his behavior when he gets that pheromonal message that sweetikins down the street is receptive, so that you know next time what that means, so be it...Castration is the easy way out of responsible pet ownership...it sucks no matter how you slice it <off> and if good people would get up off their duffs once in awhile and actually think...maybe some of this nonsense wouldn't occur... On the other hand, the Forces of Ignorance are ALWAYS on the March...Selah
QUOTE (NanakiWolfMon @ Aug 25 2008, 01:48 AM) It's abuse to make a horny dog suffer without. I agree,,lol...I would look at the people who had there un-nuetered dogs,,and think of the poor dog needing to be layed if he ain`t breed or had some fun with there owners...male dogs hump even when nuetered, alot..and more when not,,females go crazy in heat XD
I see what you mean, saddlebum. And I agree with you completely. I just didn't understand what you were saying earlier, so sorry about that.
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August 22, Assembly Bill 1634 was voted down by a vote of 27-5. AB1634 would have required all dogs in California older than six months to be spayed or neutered unless the dog owner obtained a “may issue” annual intact permit from the owner’s local government after paying an unspecified fee. AB1634 is being pushed by animal “rights” extremist people like the Humane Society of the United States.So basically, they want you to pay them to keep your pet intact and that is in addition to the registration fees and other junk.Also, "may issue" means that they don't have to give you the permit.
QUOTE (neandernitz @ Aug 23 2008, 03:44 PM) Lordy, lordy...... That'll keep Homeland Security tied up in knots for years! The thought brings a smile to me. You think they will have 'undercover' animals? Think they will dress the animals in mini-skirts, put lipstick on them and walk them on the 'bad side' of town? If they do use animals someone will have to train them, that open more room for thought - I wonder what a person needs on a resume to apply for the job? What animal will they pick, might look kind of odd to have a horse in net stockings walking the streets. And what about the New York cops that ride horses? Shouldn't the horses be made to wear clothing? Isn't it a violation of decency laws to have a nude horse?;->
QUOTE (saddlebum66 @ Aug 26 2008, 10:40 AM) Well, Missy, try as I might, I don't see where it's off-topic, since I addressed the Mind-set of people who advocate and in fact LEGISLATE for " All Spayed, All Neutered" Governmental Policy <since they actually wrote the Bill that Pa. enacted this spring, so those poor, overworked Congressmen and Senators in that illustrious State didn't have to . The very idea of castrating male or female dogs as a prerequisite to ownership, or as a punishment for a vaguely described " abuse " appalls me... I call it as I see it...and for most of the other " common-sense" reasons, it doesn't work...Take responsibility for your critters or don't take them at all...if this means a leash or a fence, so be it...if it means keeping them in during fertile periods, so be it...and if yours is male that means attention to his behavior when he gets that pheromonal message that sweetikins down the street is receptive, so that you know next time what that means, so be it...Castration is the easy way out of responsible pet ownership...it sucks no matter how you slice it <off> and if good people would get up off their duffs once in awhile and actually think...maybe some of this nonsense wouldn't occur... On the other hand, the Forces of Ignorance are ALWAYS on the March...Selah I guess that there is not much left to say about "pet owners and their pets."
Franky I've never understood the opposition to having dogs spayed and neutered. Unless your planning on having sex or for breeding, why not have them fixed? They're not going to be having sex, right. Unfortunately many pet owners are irresponsible and thats why so many cats and dogs are destroyed every day.
there are many health issues, and problems do arise in neutered and spayed animals, especially urinary issues in male cats.
Big Difference between beating on an animal and Beating off.
QUOTE (KJCNM @ Aug 27 2008, 08:35 AM) QUOTE (neandernitz @ Aug 23 2008, 03:44 PM) Lordy, lordy...... That'll keep Homeland Security tied up in knots for years! The thought brings a smile to me. You think they will have 'undercover' animals? Think they will dress the animals in mini-skirts, put lipstick on them and walk them on the 'bad side' of town? If they do use animals someone will have to train them, that open more room for thought - I wonder what a person needs on a resume to apply for the job? What animal will they pick, might look kind of odd to have a horse in net stockings walking the streets. And what about the New York cops that ride horses? Shouldn't the horses be made to wear clothing? Isn't it a violation of decency laws to have a nude horse?;-> The "Undercover animals" thing reminds me of a video on Youtube, where some dopes in a 2-man horse costume end up getting bred by an elk. Soon any animal may be a spy. You'll have to look up your sheep's ass with a flashlight to see if anyone is in there looking back at you.........
QUOTE (missywolf @ Aug 27 2008, 09:51 PM) there are many health issues, and problems do arise in neutered and spayed animals, especially urinary issues in male cats. Hurrah, Missy! The only spayed dog I ever had became very geriatric for years before she died-- senility, stroke, spinal collapse--all of the post-menopause symptoms. The intact ones have remained active and vibrant right thru' old age.
http://muttcats.com/articles/whyspay.htmResponsible CareYou can help prevent the suffering and death of millions of animals?One cat or dog who has babies and whose babies have babies can be responsible for the birth of 50 to 200 kittens or puppies in one year! Almost everyone loves puppies and kittens, but some people lose interest when these animals grow up. As a result, millions of cats and dogs of all ages and breeds are euthanized annually or suffer as strays. Rarely surviving for more than a few years on their own, strays die painfully by starvation, disease, freezing or being hit by cars.Common Myths DispelledMyth: A female cat or dog should have a litter before she is spayed.Fact: The sooner you spay your female, the better her health will be in the future. As long as a kitten or puppy weighs more than 2 pounds and is 2 months old, he or she can be neutered or spayed. Many veterinarians are practicing perfectly safe early sterilization. The likelihood of developing mammary tumors or uterine infections increases the longer a female goes unspayed. In fact, a female spayed before sexual maturity (6-9 months of age) has one seventh the risk of an intact female of developing mammary cancer.Myth: Spaying or neutering (sterilization) will alter my pet ‘s personality.Fact: Any slight changes will be positive. Regardless of the age when spayed or neutered, your pet will remain a caring, loving and protective companion. Neutering will reduce the need to breed, and that has a calming effect on many animals. Both neutered male canines and felines tend to stop roaming and fighting and lose the desire to mark their territory with urine.Myth: Companion animals will become fat and lazy if they are neutered.Fact: Absolutely not! Lack of exercise and overfeeding make pets fat and lazy -- not neutering. Your pet will not gain weight if you provide exercise and monitor food intake. Neutering is good for your pet, since sterilized pets tend to live an average of two to three years longer than unsterilized pets.Myth: Sterilization is a dangerous and painful surgery for my pet.Fact: Spaying and neutering are the most common surgeries performed on animals. With a minimal amount of home care, your pet will resume normal behavior in a couple of days.Myth: Children should witness the miracle of birth.Fact: Countless books and videos are available to teach your children about birth in a responsible manner. Letting your pet produce offspring you have no intention of keeping is teaching your children irresponsibility. Anyone who has seen an animal euthanized in a shelter for lack of a home knows the truth behind this dangerous myth.
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Spaying and neutering is needed. There are irresponsible people out there. I only breed my dogs (who have all been health checked and come from champion parents) to approved female dogs who have also been health checked and have champions in their background (at least). If someone only wants a pet, then the dog should be spayed/neutered. Same goes for all animals.
good post, silkythighs. That last one is just silly, but there are some people who think that children must see birth. Besides the mother dog would prefer the child not be there!As for the weight gain, I've seen plenty proof of that, but I'm not going into that in this thread. And of course its a safe surgery. The chance of fatality is just as slim as when humans are put under for surgery. Bad things can happen, but its rare.
regarding the spay/neuter discussion-within-the-discussion, I'm all for encouraging education about the benefits of spaying and neutering pets. especially with all this puppymill bullcrap (what kind of sick idiot made that trend mainstream!?) and puppies/kittens being sold in petshops, encouraging knowledgeable pet ownership is a must. I highly back the "all spayed/all neutered" programs... but only in places where they'll make a difference. The average dog owner is obviously better off with a spayed/neutered pet, but what about some kind of certification program for canine handler higher-education?The fact that a majority of breeders are now either selling desexed puppies or requiring spay/neuter procedures as early as 8 months is not only detrimental for the development of the dog or bitch (many studies back this), but also leaves professional-level dog owners at a quandary. There's no way to break into the purebred arena without extensive prerequisites these days. Some breeders who tout big name dogs are requiring at least one vet tech credit or six months as a veterinary intern in order for them to purchase one of their dogs for breeding. that's insane! Why not leave those valuable positions open for people actually training to be vets, y'know?In the end of it all, while all spayed/all neutered is a good idea, I'd like there to be ways that responsible owners who have proven time and time again that they have the knowledge and skill to handle an intact dog or bitch to own one as such without resorting to loopholes or 'lesser breeders'. it would be very easy to have a licensing program, like being licensed in CPR. A few classes, a certain number of hours of hands on experience, and a certification 'final'... I'd be more than willing to put in time and money for a class if it means i never have anyone second-guess my knowledge or skill as a handler/owner of an intact dog.even so... I still love 'em, balls or not! *cuddles cody the ball-less*
So, what we're advocating here is having the critters pay for human error...just so I'm on the same page with the consensus...Interesting idea...an unnecessary invasive medical procedure on an otherwise correctly-functioning animal is OKAY?....So if the boot was on the other foot, you'd lose your 'nads or ovaries willingly because some other misguided dope can't keep his or hers in its place?....Surgery and anesthesia are always potentially life-threatening, folks...I dunno 'bout y'all but I am not letting anyone near me with a knife unless there's no other way...and they are NOT getting near my critter either...and Laws which might attempt to force the issue are laws to which I will cheerfully offer Civil Disobedience...I can take care of my Menace, and I can take care of myself...have done for a long time...and I don't need a Big Brother to watch over me
yep, saddlebum, you are right. sad, isn't it?
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QUOTE So, what we're advocating here is having the critters pay for human error...just so I'm on the same page with the consensus...Interesting idea...an unnecessary invasive medical procedure on an otherwise correctly-functioning animal is OKAY?....I guess... but it shouldnt be a requirement to have this done. A responsible owner should be able to minimize any breeding just through proper care. Even if there is an "accident" I wouldn't say that is causing much of a problem. I think a lot more euthanisations are from dogs that were abandoned when they lost their "cuteness", ran in to a training roadblock, became too expensive, or more to the point... the owner was unwilling to make sacrifices to honor their commitment.
I think you're probably right, Gryph...and I fervently believe the " training" part of pet-ownership should begin BEFORE the pet is owned...particularly with Dogs, as, in all honesty, they are a human-created species, potential owners need to understand...they can't really take care of themselves in the Natural world, any more than a Juvenile of ANY species is ready to take care of itself...Dogs have been described as adolescent wolves that don't advance past the point of puberty...we've managed to breed into them something that arrests development beyond a certain point, or they'd still be wolves and not 257 different variations on a theme...they were bred to respond to us, to please us and to regard US as their pack...that puts an obligation on us that cannot be broken...and if we want them in our world we must live up to that...
QUOTE (saddlebum66 @ Aug 30 2008, 11:49 AM) I think you're probably right, Gryph...and I fervently believe the " training" part of pet-ownership should begin BEFORE the pet is owned...particularly with Dogs, as, in all honesty, they are a human-created species, potential owners need to understand...they can't really take care of themselves in the Natural world, any more than a Juvenile of ANY species is ready to take care of itself...Dogs have been described as adolescent wolves that don't advance past the point of puberty...we've managed to breed into them something that arrests development beyond a certain point, or they'd still be wolves and not 257 different variations on a theme...they were bred to respond to us, to please us and to regard US as their pack...that puts an obligation on us that cannot be broken...and if we want them in our world we must live up to that... I soooo agree. Obedience trainers often state that they are training the owners, teaching the owners how a dog responds. Dogs want to please us, they do have wants and desires however they are not human, one cannot assign human motives and desires to their behaviorsOne can read as many healthcare pros as cons for neutering or spaying. Using the pros as a defense, rather than accepting the responsibility of being a pet owner seems to me just another abrogation of that responsibility. Spaying of a female does remove the “risk” of puppies, however in a great many females it results in the loss of bladder tone and urinary incontinence. This will often result in the human owner having the dog “put down” because of the constant mess. ( Just a note here, if you do have a female that has this problem presently, it is treatable with hormones from your vet. Know also that choosing this option has its own risks, make sure your Vet explains them to you ) In neutering a male it is stated that it prevents certain cancers, read further and you will note that many of the cancers occur in advanced age. Statistics are numbers …. That can be used to prove or disprove many things, often with the same information. They are NOT an excuse to let someone else make your decisions. I am sure that there are individual decisions that lead a choice of spaying or neutering I hope that the choice is well considered, and not just one of convenience.
Ms Deelight, that was well said.
QUOTE (Gryph @ Aug 30 2008, 12:31 AM) QUOTE So, what we're advocating here is having the critters pay for human error...just so I'm on the same page with the consensus...Interesting idea...an unnecessary invasive medical procedure on an otherwise correctly-functioning animal is OKAY?....I guess... but it shouldnt be a requirement to have this done. A responsible owner should be able to minimize any breeding just through proper care. Even if there is an "accident" I wouldn't say that is causing much of a problem. I think a lot more euthanisations are from dogs that were abandoned when they lost their "cuteness", ran in to a training roadblock, became too expensive, or more to the point... the owner was unwilling to make sacrifices to honor their commitment. I am seeing information mixed with misinformation in many of these posts. Many of the supposed "facts" are made by people without regards to all fof the truths. Take a look at the aniti spay/neuter group on yahoo, and you will find more truth there. First, spaying and/or neutering does _NOT_ always keep animals from wanting to roam. I had a neutered male dog who loved to wander, though he was obedient enough that he seldom strayed, other than to chase a rabbit or two. I currently have a spayed Shepherd mix that is always trying to wander off, granted not far, but she seems to think the whole neighborhood is her domain. It is true that many people adopt dogs for the wrong reasons. I currently have a bitch who turned out to be less than ideal for a 2 year old child to have as a pet. Spaying her would not have made that part any different. She is a very active type dog, and was about 3 or 4 months old when I took her into my care. She is a bit less active, but only because she has grown partly out of puppyhood. My older spayed shepherd mix is just as active. I have a neigbor that has 2 dogs, one of which had a litter of pups early this year. Both dogs get little action from their owner, and are outside all the time, night or day, rain or snow or whatever. The male has only a tree as a shelter. I feel sorry for both of them, as I seldom see either getting any real attention. Mine all sleep inside with me (no, not all of them on th bed). And they get good food in dishes. Another neighbor feeds his dogs by tossing the food on the concrete walk in the back yard. This also means that the heifer calf, and now a doe goat, have access to the dogs food as well as their own. I love my dogs, even though I sometimes yell at them. I try my best to keep my unspayed girl from getting bred, to avoid a new crop of puppies that could wind up as unwanted and in a shelter or even worse, Coyote food. All of the dogs I have adopted were "unwanted" dogs for one reason or another. One was particularly well behaved, and simply unclaimed as a stray. Yes, behavioral problems could start early on, and are often because the animals were not socialized, and had little interaction with their owners. And it is sometimes amazing to see some of the dogs that wind up at shelters. I have seen full blooded Borzoi, and one guy that I think was maybe a Shiloh Shepherd (biggest German Shepherd I ever saw). I adopted my full blooded Siberian Husky from that shelter years ago. I will point out that many shelters will not allow an animal to be adopted unless spayed or neutered, others require a deposit or a signed "promise", and a few have no real requirements. As you say, many people adopt a "cute" puppy, but when puppy gets bigger, and they have not bothered to train the dog at all, gets relegated to the backyeard, or worse, to a shelter where they may or may not get adopted. Another thing some don't figure is the cost to feed. I am buying 100 pounds of dry dog food per month, and treats once in a while. This is for 3 medium sized dogs. Medium being between 40 and 100 pounds. And this is not counting what I have to buy for the goats and chickens... Before adopting a dog, or other animal, consider the costs to keep them. And adopt because you love the animal, not because you consider him/her a potential sex partner. And never overdo it. Near where I last lived in California, there was a woman who had an untold number of dogs. Some tended to escape from the big pen they were kept in, and I recall one time she tried to get me to adopt a couple of the younger ones. She said some of the big ones were killing the smaller ones. Could be in part because they were not fed well enough, and also mayhap due to not being well socialized either. heck, my 3 get along pretty well considering, but the youngest girl does sometimes show a bit of food aggression towards the others, even though there is always plenty of food available. But at least this is very minor, and they have no aggression towards each other at night when we retire to the "bed quarters"... Also keep in mind that it is sometimes difficult to find a place to live that will allow pets. Some only allow small animals (cats, teeny dogs and such), and many none at all. Much of this is due to people who have animals that are not taken care of, and often cause damage to the house/a[artment, and so on. So be responsible if/when you adopt. Steps off soap box now!
QUOTE I am seeing information mixed with misinformation in many of these posts.Many of the supposed "facts" are made by people without regards to all fof the truths.Which is because many people see preventing unwanted litters as the ultimate goal. If they have to downplay/ignore any negative side and/or amplify any positive to spay/neuter, they find it acceptable because they are "saving lives". It has gotten to where this misconceptions seem to be fact. Healthwise a more balanced perspective would show it really isn't necessary, especially for males and puppies. Behavioural issues aren't all solved either... sure some things are helped, but if you dont take the proper steps for training, obediance, and socializing nothing will be "fixed".Something else interesting is the lack of any other type of birth control. There have been attempts, but I think spay/neuter is also about removing the sexual tendencies and "naughty bits". People dont want to think of their pets as beings with sexual needs, or perhaps they just dont want to deal with it... which I guess if the alternative was euthanisations, I guess it is ok. Just sucks the operation has to be done to live with us.
You Nailed it, Gryph...It IS about the naughty bits...and about how we regard the world as the domain of Humanity first and as my mother would've said..." De'il tak the heendmost..."...I suspect that for most humans, there's a sneaking little envy of the freedom that animals have to be themselves ( hence the jokes about " why does a dog lick himself so much? and so forth...) and I wonder if the " true believer " passion which some advocates of spay-neuter display really comes from a sour grapes POV...if you can't lick 'em, cut them off (or out)...I say this because, as MsDeelight( ) and Cabron, among others have pointed out, much of the PRO stance advocated by HSUS and PETA is based on flawed logic...the reasons cited are mostly not as successful as they would have us believe...and the CON side is mostly shouted down...
I cant stand people that think its abuse. Most of them are religious types who only know what their cults tell them. Asside from that as you can tell my alignment is non religious I will say that I was lucky enough to find somebody on the net who is in the next town 30 minutes away. She has the same feelings as I do towards our fellow 4 legged friends. Its very rare to find sombody who has the same feelings and views, especially in this politically controlled world where people would rather see an axe murderer get life in jail and zoophiles / beastials get death. Whats wrong with this world? As for people Ive told in person. None. On the internet 4. All who know and accept my views. One of these years I hope to get a place of my own where I can have a couple horses and dogs and have a huge brick wall with metal spikes on top surrounding the place. Im tired of neighbors being so damn close together when they sneeze you hear them like they were in your frontroom. Anyhow im going way off base here, sorry. The other unfortunate thing is shes with a hugely jellous boyfriend and she has child. So untill hes out of the picture several years down the line were just email friends. *sighs*
It is quite amusing, the headlines in the local paper may read "Ninjas caught with pink samurai swords in war horse" The possibilities are endless. Missywolf, I know of a little jack russel newtered bitch, and when ever I stay over at this persons house she always likes to come and relieve a bit of tension, I never inserted a finger in her but she she klings onto my arm and rubs her intimate zone like crazy on my hand, you know when shes finished because she goes all stiff and pulls a funny face, it is really kind of sweet.Any way, Nijas, happy banzai bonking to you
aww, that's sweet. But if the poor doggie tried that on any "normal" person, oh my! she'd be in trouble! See and often people don't see that- female or male, altered or not- it may often times be the animal that starts it. And somehow by helping the poor fella out we are abusive. Oh boy.
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QUOTE (buckup @ Aug 22 2008, 11:48 PM) Well, in terms of your title, yeah... I think a lot of people who have never seen an animal 'ask for sex' (and most of us here know, they can and WILL, sometimes very insistently! ) assume that we're performing selfish acts against the animals' will.that being said, you're awful lucky you got out of that the way you did. It may benefit you in the future to be more discreet in choosing the locations you choose to pleasure your partner(s). Being spotted can get you in real trouble. Just because they were forced to pay a fine once doesn't mean they won't go back to the police station and report you or your property, and then what a mess of paperwork that'd be.plus even i think it sounds a bit odd to tell someone that it's 'right to pleasure the horses' just because they're in heat. Perhaps another way of phrasing it may have made it sound nicer.Keep in mind that if you choose to be open about your inclination to have an intimate relationship with your animal in public then you also have to accept some responsibility as an ambassador for other zoos. you'll probably be the one and only beastialist/zoo they'll ever meet, best make that first impression a good one.either way, in the vein of the original topic, i do agree. after all, non-zoos tend to just associate the fact that bestiality is more or less entirely illegal with the assumption that it must horribly hurt the animal. such is life, i'm afraid... The first time i had ever had sex was with a small pony we had that i brought into a false heat,I seen my dad bring a mare into false heat so he could breed her with our stud.And it worked.So i tried it with our little mare And wow was she ever hot when i slid my little cock into her.CAnt tell my age?So my sex like begain.
QUOTE (godoggo @ Sep 4 2008, 01:54 PM) So i tried it with our little mare And wow was she ever hot when i slid my little cock into her.CAnt tell my age?So my sex like begain. Be carefull, you may be flirting with danger. ALL CATEGORIES:DO NOT POST:2.1.0 text written references to underage experiencesFORUM STANDARD IS 18+FOR ALL CATEGORIES
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QUOTE (wicked mutt @ Aug 26 2008, 04:23 AM) QUOTE (NanakiWolfMon @ Aug 25 2008, 01:48 AM) It's abuse to make a horny dog suffer without. I agree,,lol...I would look at the people who had there un-nuetered dogs,,and think of the poor dog needing to be layed if he ain`t breed or had some fun with there owners...male dogs hump even when nuetered, alot..and more when not,,females go crazy in heat XD I know that cats go crazy when they are in heat. Sort of like that Cat Orgy episode of South Park.
QUOTE (saddlebum66 @ Aug 31 2008, 10:30 AM) You Nailed it, Gryph...It IS about the naughty bits...and about how we regard the world as the domain of Humanity first and as my mother would've said..." De'il tak the heendmost..."...I suspect that for most humans, there's a sneaking little envy of the freedom that animals have to be themselves ( hence the jokes about " why does a dog lick himself so much? and so forth...) and I wonder if the " true believer " passion which some advocates of spay-neuter display really comes from a sour grapes POV...if you can't lick 'em, cut them off (or out)...I say this because, as MsDeelight( ) and Cabron, among others have pointed out, much of the PRO stance advocated by HSUS and PETA is based on flawed logic...the reasons cited are mostly not as successful as they would have us believe...and the CON side is mostly shouted down... These [SPAM] even have many vets brainwashed. I call my mother very week, and mentioned that my girl has maybe started a false pregnancy. Once I explained what it was, my mother kept saying I needed to get her spayed. Seems many of the vets back in central NY say it should be done at 7 months of age. yet the vets in the Rochester NY area said over a year old. And the anti spay/neuter group I amd on points out that the benefits of s[paying and neuterining are far less than the benefits of not doing so, especially leaving the ovaries and/or testicles intact. In other words, "fixing" by vasectomy or tying of fallopian tubes, or alternately, partial removal of the uterus leaving ovaries intact is a far better way is such must be done. Sure, one will still have to deal with times of heat, and overly amorous attention by the males at times, but that's a small price for the real benefits. "They" would have you beleive that spayed and neutered animals will live longer, and are less likely to develop cancer and so on. Not true. I have had both intact and spayed animals, and they seem to live about as long. In fact, my last dog, who was catrated at a bit over a year old, had a number of tumors, and would most likely have only lasted a year or so if he had not been hit by a truck and badly injured, leaving me to make the decision that it was kinder to just have him put to sleep at that time. Anyway, so many people, my mother included, have simply been brainwashed by these [SPAM].
Evidently we have some high rollers that are advocating beastiality.I posted a link in my thread: http://www.beastforum.com/showtopic-134548.html
i hate the term abuse also, but you cant really blame people who dont understand and are full of taboos. they just need to be educated... how? i dont know...
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QUOTE (cabron45 @ Sep 7 2008, 01:51 AM) especially leaving the ovaries and/or testicles intact. In other words, "fixing" by vasectomy or tying of fallopian tubes, or alternately, partial removal of the uterus leaving ovaries intact is a far better way is such must be done. Good luck with that, tho'.I asked several large and small animal vets about that, and they (thought I was strange) said the medical profession only does castration/ovariohistorectomy on dogs for health reasons, and why would I want otherwise? Said hormones cause cancer, and we only do it one way......
QUOTE (neandernitz @ Sep 8 2008, 08:09 AM) QUOTE (cabron45 @ Sep 7 2008, 01:51 AM) especially leaving the ovaries and/or testicles intact. In other words, "fixing" by vasectomy or tying of fallopian tubes, or alternately, partial removal of the uterus leaving ovaries intact is a far better way is such must be done. Good luck with that, tho'.I asked several large and small animal vets about that, and they (thought I was strange) said the medical profession only does castration/ovariohistorectomy on dogs for health reasons, and why would I want otherwise? Said hormones cause cancer, and we only do it one way...... Health reasons? Typical response by brainwashed vets. besides, it is big business with many vets to castrate and so on. As for the hormone thing, how is it that human females need those hormones after a hystecetomy and/or menopause? the general public is being lied to about the matter. One older bitch that I adopted had evidently already been sopayed, but had a very fine neat scar, hard to see if one did not look close. yet the vet who checked her (free checkup) after I adopted her claimed she was intact. Strange, she never came in heat in almost 4 years, and her vulva was atrophied the same as any spayed bitch I have even seen. Rather than put her through an operation for something that was already done, I simply licensed her as intact. Either the vet was blind or was looking to make more money, other than the shots I got for her. But yes, it can be difficult to find a vet that will go along with leaving ovaries intact or doing only a vasectomy. What we need is a list of possible vets. I can see doing a vasectomy or partial hysterectomy or tubal ligation, but not the whole smash.
QUOTE (equine69 @ Sep 4 2008, 03:04 PM) It is quite amusing, the headlines in the local paper may read "Ninjas caught with pink samurai swords in war horse" The possibilities are endless. Missywolf, I know of a little jack russel newtered bitch, and when ever I stay over at this persons house she always likes to come and relieve a bit of tension, I never inserted a finger in her but she she klings onto my arm and rubs her intimate zone like crazy on my hand, you know when shes finished because she goes all stiff and pulls a funny face, it is really kind of sweet.Any way, Nijas, happy banzai bonking to you Why do you assume they are pink? I have real Japanese weaponry.
Uh.... He was referring to your "Other weapon".The pink one..... In the horse..... Don't make me have to explain it.......
QUOTE (GivingHead @ Aug 22 2008, 10:22 PM) It's never abuse if the animal shows signs that they want sex, if they're in heat, or if they are horny. The other day me and a buddy were making a movie project about a story of zoophilia ninjas. We used our own horses and when we were shooting, some people were trespassing because they "wanted to see the sights of the country side". They freaked out at what they saw and threatened to call the cops that we were abusing animals. The horses were in heat and they needed to be penetrated. We don't have any male horses so it was right to pleasure the horses. Because horses are a lot bigger than humans, it is wrong to say that having sex with a horny one is "abusing". Infact, if you really want a correct "abusive" senario, the horses would be considered to be abusing us .The good side of the story is that they never saw our faces because of our ninja outfits, and we later called the cops back on them for tresspassing. They had to pay a $120 fine for each person I cant undrestand why they call it abuse.If thats what they mean then its abuse when a animails mate same same.No different than when a dog mates with a women??.A male dog will fuck a women because they want sex and so does the women if she willing to have sex with him.And they call that abuse??.I do not buy it.I dont belive its any bodys bussness to what a women or a man wants in sex.As long as its behind closed doors.And it hurts no one else.Just my two cents worth on the matter.
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It's an interesting question on its face, I think there are a number of different factors which contribute to ye old random Joe Q Public reacting negatively to zoophilia. The issue is one of consent and mental capacity. People believe that animals have the mental maturity of children and thus are unable to understand hence consent to sex, thus, to them, all animal sex is rape. What they miss is the fact that animals mature faster and are ready to mate much earlier than humans. They don't have to worry about language, vocations, math, or the stock market to survive... all they need are their wits and the body capable of gathering/hunting for food. Simply put, they are not children and they do actively seek and/or consent to sex.You will run into other objections such as: it's against the law; it's against religion; it's perverted; and it's dirty. All of these issues are artificial and belie a fundamental problem with modern society. We as a nation, as a world, exploit animals for everything from food to companionship. Giving animals... or admitting that animals are capable of being in mutual loving relationships puts that world view into serious question. People are dogmatically trained to their very core to reject the notion that it's okay to have sex with animals. It's something you just have to be prepared to deal with out there in the great big wide world of mundanes.TK
I'm kinda jealous of those neutered dogs... being horny and never having sex is the worst!!
yes, Tomokato! Very good post. That is exactly why people have issues with this. Personally, I'd say it's because they (the humans who oppose it) lack the mental capacity for it. They think animals have child minds because they don't understand other species. They don't know their languages, how to interpret body signals, etc. They think they can't talk so therefore they can't consent.
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QUOTE (missywolf @ Oct 15 2008, 08:42 AM) ...... because they don't understand other species. They don't WANT to.......
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QUOTE (Tomokato @ Oct 10 2008, 10:45 AM) It's an interesting question on its face, I think there are a number of different factors which contribute to ye old random Joe Q Public reacting negatively to zoophilia. The issue is one of consent and mental capacity. People believe that animals have the mental maturity of children and thus are unable to understand hence consent to sex, thus, to them, all animal sex is rape. What they miss is the fact that animals mature faster and are ready to mate much earlier than humans. They don't have to worry about language, vocations, math, or the stock market to survive... all they need are their wits and the body capable of gathering/hunting for food. Simply put, they are not children and they do actively seek and/or consent to sex.You will run into other objections such as: it's against the law; it's against religion; it's perverted; and it's dirty. All of these issues are artificial and belie a fundamental problem with modern society. We as a nation, as a world, exploit animals for everything from food to companionship. Giving animals... or admitting that animals are capable of being in mutual loving relationships puts that world view into serious question. People are dogmatically trained to their very core to reject the notion that it's okay to have sex with animals. It's something you just have to be prepared to deal with out there in the great big wide world of mundanes.TK religion tends to be a sore spot with me. Much of the so called Christian Religion is done by a lot of hypocrytical persons. I used to see supposed good catholics park illegally to go to church. many of these same people would condemn us for making love to our animal mates/wives/lovers, etc... I have resolved that and have my own religion, which I call Zetology. it allows love and mating, plus Wedlock, of course, as a part of it. Makes no difference that the partners may be of different species, only that love and tenderness are involved. I want to locate more text from the Babylonian bible/Torah or whatever it is, and read much more than just the part where Adam has sex with all of the female animals at first. It is also said by some that the Talmud, in some versions, does allow sex with female animals, but alas, also says the animal must be put to death afterward. Another crock of ......... Some would say that it is abuse to have sex with my Boer doe, because I have to catch her and put her on a stand to do so. But strangely enough, once on the stand, she is ready to let me lick into her and then have full coitus with her. I see not how it can be abuse when she gets enjoyment from it. And some animals will actually make the advances, once more, is it abuse to have relations with them, or is it abuse to not give them what they want? I will add that most male goats seem to force some of the females to let them plow their fertile field... And in other instances, the females will back up to a fence, or lay down to allow a small male access, and so on. And it is known that some females want sex even when not in heat, though may be fussier as to who gets to plow then. Gotta run...
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QUOTE (sumguy24 @ Oct 14 2008, 11:43 PM) I'm kinda jealous of those neutered dogs... being horny and never having sex is the worst!! While most neutered males don't get horny, some do. this includes geldings, who can sometimes have full coitus and enjoy it, just shoot blanks. Not to mention, I have seen many spayed bitches do a lot of humping. True, most have no sex drive, but some still do. Speaking of horny, my friend cut her trip short and came back today, so I am now horny and cannot do what I had intended to do... Ratzzz!!!
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QUOTE (neandernitz @ Oct 15 2008, 10:58 AM) QUOTE (missywolf @ Oct 15 2008, 08:42 AM) ...... because they don't understand other species. They don't WANT to....... And there are some that would if it were not for the opinions of others, and the laws in some states and countries. Interesting that very old religions, no longer practiced, that we see anyway actually had coitus with animals as a part of the fertility rites... Oh yes, another seemingly strange practice that still goes on in some parts of the world is called Cow Blowing. the farmer, or other person, actually blows into a cows vagina to get her to give milk. There is a video on Youtube... And other mentions if you search for cow blowing. of course, some cows do give a sh!t...
QUOTE (neandernitz @ Sep 10 2008, 05:17 PM) Uh.... He was referring to your "Other weapon".The pink one..... In the horse..... Don't make me have to explain it....... I don't get it ;_;
He's standing behind the horse, with his pink thing stuck inside her....... OK, look at what the draft horse is doing to the cow.....<-------<That's his "Other weapon". Got it?
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Interesting.I am surprised that the moderators allowed the "Religious Beliefs" to be allowed in this thread. I mentioned it once and got reprimanded!Anyway - Idiots abound, as we all know.There is a fruitcake in our area that "read about it, and is now an Expert" on horse behavior. He and his wife ride around trying to start trouble with several of us horse owners. There have been several intentions by the "City Fathers" to stop all livestock ownership within the city limits. So fat these fail because of a few well placed words concerning Prejudice.Outlaw my