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I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to phrase this well, but I'll give it a shot. We all have seen lions, cheetahs, wild dogs, hyenas, wolves, leopards doing what they do. That is, they kill and eat other animals. As a zoo, how do you feel about it? Is it upsetting to you? Is it exciting? Is it conflicting? I've been to Tanzania and I was "fortunate" enough to see three lionesses take down an older, injured zebra stallion. It was not a "clean" kill and they began to feed before the old fella had expired. Being someone who is very, very attracted to equines I was very surprised that I wasn't very upset at the whole thing. But before I go into it further, I'd love to hear some feedback on this. It's a tough question, but as a zoo and as a lover of wildlife (as I believe most zoo's are) I think it's worth discussing. How do you feel about "the circle of life" as a zoo?
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Predation does not affect me. I know that most of the time the animals killed are old, sick, or weak. I'm sure the Zebra was so full of adrenaline, that he felt very little of what was going on. What affects me on the other hand, is witnessing animals dying of starvation because their natural predators are no longer there and they ate themselves out of their habitat.
doesnt affect me, its just an act of nature and keeping the balance of animal species.
I can understand the conflicting feelings one may have over this, but whenever I see this kind of stuff, I don't dwell on it much. In the back of my mind, I know that this is nature, this is how things really are, this is how the world works. It's just the knowledge that predator and prey is essential in the circle of life.I may feel sorry for the prey for it's death, and I may feel sorry for the predator if it has to starve another day. However, I still remember that life goes on, it's just another day in the animal kingdom.
It does nothing to me. Survival is #1 for any species including humans and I understand others doing what they need to survive.
Animals in the wild have to eat too.cliff.....
Well they cant pop in the supermarket can they..And they at least eat what they kill..Rus
The way I see it, animals need to eat to survive. If they eat other animals, they eat other animals.
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Although I do feel compassion in my heart when I watch cute and cuddly animals stricken down by predators, I think it’s a beautiful example of Darwinian Theory in action. Truly, one must realize that with out this fundamental give and take, this natural selection, this circle of life (or whatever you want to call it) the world and life itself would not be as we know it.
A predator has no choice but to kill prey to survive. They aren't committing murder, as humans do. Just doing what nature intended for them to do. That's what separates humans from all other animals. We have free will, animals do not.
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QUOTE (rus80 @ Jun 6 2007, 03:31 AM)Well they cant pop in the supermarket can they..And they at least eat what they kill..RusUnless you’re a hunter because most kill for pleasure and not for food. I over heard a group of hunters saying that the best part of hunting is when you shoot the animal and then it starts yelping while its blood is gushing out of its body. I almost hit the guy that said that. I really love animals and if someone talks that way about them around me Any ways to get back on the topic it doesn't bother me to see animal vs. animal but if I see animal vs. man it bothers me because humans use weapons instead of themselves to solve a fight. I just think that’s wrong and that’s what I believe.
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It has never bothered me to see predators do what they do.....I'm a hunter and my dog and I work as a team to kill birds. It's a part of our connection that is most sacred to me. More so than the sexuality by far. Watching predators do their work is almost magical. Striking down prey that seem impossible to bring down. It's amazing to watch!! Having a hunting dog and participating in something that makes him a dog why I hunt in the first place. As for hunters enjoying the suffering of animals- it's rediculous. Some animals will suffer when they are killed, but hunters usually get the job done a lot faster than the commercial farms most of our meat comes from. It's a choice- For me, the seconds of suffering from the birds I shoot for the shotgun blast to kill them are far more humane than the life long suffering of the cows, pigs and chickens endure in silence for the sake of our dinner tables.
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World is designed with this balance in mind. Predators and Prey make a vital role to the whole ecosystem. When you remove one part to far right or left, it becomes even worse. The land itself will begin to pay for the unbalance. In turn it will effect us as well, in ways we might not completely understand, or very harsh to our everyday lives.Without sharks, our beaches can be overtaken with jellyfish.Without wolves, rabbits and deer will eat themselves out of their land.Without the Eagles, rodents would become far more noticed and more than a pest.Without Cats, we would never lived today as we are now. Thanks to them we were saved from the plague.Without Dogs, where would we be?Yes life can be cruel and relentless. But most animals when they do kill, go for a fast killing blow. Few do not, but as said before, when your fighting to live and adrenaline is pumping, there is little pain felt.But atleast in it's death it brings life, as that life passes on, new life forms once again. In turn I live by the ways my father set before me. As he has learned from his family and friends. Many Native Americans within his blood always spoke to honor your kill and thank it for the life it gave. Always use everything you can. That which you can not, bury it for the earth to take back into itself. Never kill more than your family needs.
Totally a part of nature, so I see nothing wrong with it. I mean, how can you if it's instinct-driven and necessary for a predator to survive?If the "victim" were a lover of mine, I'd be heartbroken, but would not consider the predator an enemy for simply doing what predators do. God willing, I'll never find myself in this situation
Of all the natural predation I've seen, very few have actually offended me. Without eating, said organisms would no longer exist and it's just something you have to learn to accept if it truly does offend you.
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When I was in Africa, and the three lionesses had their success, it was surprising to see the variety of responses from the tourists on my mini-bus. The extremes were of one man who wept openly and simply could not accept what was happening before him. I always wondered what would make someone who is that sensitive go on safari when you know you may very well be confronted with a kill like this. Another woman was overjoyed that "her lionesses" had made a kill and she seemed to me a bit too joyful in observing this. Most people were watching in silent awe, just as I was, some shed a tear or two and some stayed very detached by simply clicking away with their camera....it's something that seeing real can never be duplicated on TV, no matter how much slow mo, or dramatic music Nat'l Geo adds to it, it's not the same. It's something that stays with you forever if you ever get the chance to witness it.The zebra was in fact being eaten while he was very much alive, and in the beginning he was fighting like hell to get away. While he fought I'm pretty sure he felt the pain of the claws and teeth. But after a few short moments when he finally submitted, I really believe he felt no pain at all and simply accepted his fate. My emotions ran the whole table, from sorrow for him (but also I felt as though he were dying an honorable death...oddly I felt pride for him if that makes sense) and I definantly felt the joy, excitement and satisfaction the lionesses must have felt. One lioness in particular, who started her meal between the hind legs (yes _there_) was obviously very hungry and was just gobbling down meat as fast as she could stuff herself. When she finally took a break from eating she sat up, looked right at us in the mini-bus and issued forth a huge belch ....badly needed comic relief at that point and everyone had a good chuckle at that. If you ever get the chance, I highly recommend the trip. It was sure worth it to me.
I know it's nature...but seeing an animal being killed...not the best thing to see...not just for being a zoo...
I see it that way..it's just Nature wich happens, it has a sense and the prey often hasn't to suffer long. So I am not upset about that..sure it's not a pleasant thing to see..On the other hand when I see humans on a chinese market, skinning a dog alive..the dog was already skinned, laying in a pool of blood but still alive.That is a thing which upsets me..I will never forget that..it drives me so mad that i can go on a rampage. How cold and life-contempting can some humans be..
QUOTE On the other hand when I see humans on a chinese market, skinning a dog alive..the dog was already skinned, laying in a pool of blood but still alive.That is a thing which upsets me..I will never forget that..it drives me so mad that i can go on a rampage. How cold and life-contempting can some humans be.. Yeah...i hate that too...it's horrible! but it's not only dogs...dogs, cats, ferrets...and many others sadly
yep it's a wide variety of animals..Okay that they eat them..as a dog lover who identifies with dogs and even wouldn't mind to be one himself it makes me swallow hard...but on the other hand someone who loves cows and pigs wouldn't understand that I eat their meat..But this all doesn't give you the right to torture an living creature to death in such a horrible way..in my opinion there's no difference if it's a dog or a human which is killed so brutal. Individuals who do this are just crap..I'm a friendly calm guy..but in this case I feel the strong urge to kill them the same way..
"In the long run we are all dead."-John Maynard KeynesAll things that are born must die, as such I think it is better that in death one serves to perpetuate another's life. Ideally this would happen with as little suffering as possible, but when starving I doubt many animals care what manner of pain they cause with their bites. Even when one dies without something nearby to eat the corpse, there are many organisms in the ecosystem that will eventually recycle everything. The exception to that being humans, who stuff their deceased into boxes and keep them from returning to that from which they came. From death comes new life, thus preserving the world's balance.
It's all part of nature. Even to the point that some predators get hurt or killed during the hunt. Hunting for your food isn't always the safest thing to do.
I really don't care because its natural
Such is life. The lion, or any other predator, MUST kill to survive. I cannot blame the lion, or any other predator, for killing its prey. What we do to animals are far worse, and what we do is rarely needed for our survival.
It definitely doesn't disturb me... Tis the way of life, and how they survive.
For me its only really sad when they give u a backstory to the animal.. like they follow a lion and her cubs around for a whole TV show then at the end the lion or cubs die.. after uve bonded with it.
Yeah, I remember where I was watching The March of the Penguins in the cinemas and it was at the part where the leopard seals were preying upon the animals that have returned to the water after the long trek from their breeding ground to gather food for their young.There was audible gasp in the crowd when seals scored a successful capture. Perhaps it was the double blow how the life of the parent and its unfed chick has come to an end. The movie watchers had grown quite attached to the penguins.But I have to wonder how many would shed a tear for the leopard seals if they weren't fed and faced starvation. Or if any of them realise that the loss of their predators would cause a far greater threat to the penguin's survival in the longrun.Watching the land pay for the mistakes that man made in untangling the foodchain only reaffirms in my mind how unforgiving Entrophy can be. We disrupt the return to chaos in one place and Entrophy will just cause it elsewhere. The Queen Bitch of the Universe cannot be denied.
I grew up in the country in cajun country. Bayou's and all that wonderful stuff, and I witnessed several kills by gators, dogs, falcons, and cats in my life. I can not deny that they were not emotional and I felt bad for the animal that was killed. Some did do their best to fight back. But I also came to understand the need for it and why.Please do not think that since I am a wolf fur that I do not understand. I do, but I remember something my grand mother and my father told me several times growing up. Watching them cleaning rabbits, ducks, and deer. "Death should never be easy on your heart. When it pulls at your heart, you know you are human. That is love for nature itself and you must never forget it. But also give thanks for this creature giving itself so you or any other being may live"
if it didnt happen then there would be utter chaos the carnivores would die for obvious reasons, the herbavores would overpopulate eat all the plants then die there would be no more plants or meat and then we die
Life is a synchronicity..predators need prey/prey needs predators. Each have evolved together..they NEED each other to keep in balance. Maybe, in OUR eyes, the act of predation is cruel/inhumane - but thats totally irrelevant to the predator and prey. Mankind is one of the very few creatures to kill simply for the pure pleasure of it.Like it or not, Life NEEDS predation..even pure vegetarians live because they eat/prey on plants..and aren't they living creatures as well ?
my answer is thus. we, humans, are descended of pack hunting predators. do you really think the concept of killing for food SHOULD disturb us? pass the steak sauce please...
Just a bit of an adjustment here. I never asked if predation should happen or if it's ok that it happens. I think we all accept that it happens. I'm asking what your feelings are WHEN it happens, ya know? We all love animals. We all understand animals....much more than a "regular" (non-zoo) person does. We all have intense feelings for animals. So what are your feelings when animals are at polar opposites from one another? When the cat kills the cute mouse? When the dog eats the bunny? Let me give you a "for instance"........I love lions....they are sexy, beautiful wild predators. I wouldn't want them any other way. If I ever had the chance to make love to one (and live to tell the tale) trust me I would. But my world is a world of equines. I love horses, been around them forever. I love zebras (damn they are sexy!), donkeys, minis.....anything equine. So I go to Africa and I see a wonderful stallion getting ripped to pieces by the kitties. You know what? I was perfectly ok with it. The zebra had led his life and he apparently had lived a wonderful life. He died in the jaws of a lion...just the way it should be, quite honestly. I'm looking for the words to descibe _that_ emotion. Ever seen "Close Encounters of the third kind?" When he can't descibe what he's seen? Or what he's feeling? That's what I feel. It's not a depression, it's not a joy and it's not confusion. It's simply that feeling that can't be descibed. That's what I'm looking for....a name to that feeling.
It doesn't bother me in the least, actually I have seen the effects when there are no preditors to hunt. It does consederable damage to the suronding enviroment. I would get a little thrill if the preditors could prey on humans kinda poetic justice.
They have to eat too, and they don't exactly have a Taco Bell or Walmart to get thier food from lol.
QUOTE (equineslurp @ Jun 8 2007, 05:12 AM) Just a bit of an adjustment here. I never asked if predation should happen or if it's ok that it happens. I think we all accept that it happens. I'm asking what your feelings are WHEN it happens, ya know? We all love animals. We all understand animals....much more than a "regular" (non-zoo) person does. We all have intense feelings for animals. So what are your feelings when animals are at polar opposites from one another? When the cat kills the cute mouse? When the dog eats the bunny? Let me give you a "for instance"........I love lions....they are sexy, beautiful wild predators. I wouldn't want them any other way. If I ever had the chance to make love to one (and live to tell the tale) trust me I would. But my world is a world of equines. I love horses, been around them forever. I love zebras (damn they are sexy!), donkeys, minis.....anything equine. So I go to Africa and I see a wonderful stallion getting ripped to pieces by the kitties. You know what? I was perfectly ok with it. The zebra had led his life and he apparently had lived a wonderful life. He died in the jaws of a lion...just the way it should be, quite honestly. I'm looking for the words to descibe _that_ emotion. Ever seen "Close Encounters of the third kind?" When he can't descibe what he's seen? Or what he's feeling? That's what I feel. It's not a depression, it's not a joy and it's not confusion. It's simply that feeling that can't be descibed. That's what I'm looking for....a name to that feeling. in that case my feelings are not really anything to it it hasto happen so i accept it
It doesn't matter wether you are a zoo or not when it comes to how you feel about the 'circle of life'. You wanna change it, you're some kinda weirdo hippie, cause it ain't gonna happen. Of course, zoos can be weirdo hippies, but most aren't, and most just accept it. It's a dog eat dog world out there for humans, can we try and change that?
I also don't fing the natural instincts of preditory animals offensive, but then again I also grew up in a family of avid hunters. I think to a degree its inbreded deep within the mind of all of the animal kingdom to feed or be fed apon. I do believe that we as humans though have to be stewards of nature. By that i mean if we choose to be hunters for either sport or for survival that we must make sure anything we do isnt done out of cruelty for the lesser speciese as I;ve seen many hunters out here in manitoba kill simply to take home an animals head and leave the rest to waste and things along those lines NOT COOL
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